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Is it possible to play Tier 10 without always playing against these people?


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zerotwo #1 Posted Sep 29 2021 - 23:22

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I just want to think I stand a chance.

 

I have played 27 Tier 10 games and frankly, I guess there's no point to playing this Tier until I am ready to grind 1000 games in a "top tier" tank? I have only played 27 Tier 10 games, how am I supposed to learn to be good at that tank tier if I'm just going to get wiped out by people with 65% winrates and thousands of T10 battles under their belt? Like in my last few games in the Maus I just sit there aiming at turrets I can't pen with weak spots the size of a sheet of paper? And they fire at me unable to pen until my team dies and then I get swamped.

 

It's frustrating because I want to improve but you can only improve at a game if matched against people in and around your skill level. You don't learn to draw by immediately trying to paint a masterpiece, or learn an instrument by immediately picking up jazz. If you just get brained or get shut out by some thicc turret beast you don't learn anything except not to bother trying.

 

Anyway, other than converting to one of the current flavour of the year broken tanks, what are my options here? Am I right in assuming that Tier 10 is not a place to have fun, but a place to dedicate yourself to grinding away at? Are you supposed to spend 10,000 battles at Tier 7 and then move up? I'm confused how I'm supposed to progress.

 

Thank you kindly for reading this.

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Edited by zerotwo, Sep 29 2021 - 23:31.


ExploratorOne #2 Posted Sep 29 2021 - 23:48

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Skills built in Tiers 6 -8 prepare you for the top tiers.  Maybe don't move to far above tier 6 until you have a consistent WR above 50%.  Tier 8 is another milestone tier for learning more advanced skills.  A lot of players copnsider tier 9 to be one of the better tiers to play after you get basic skills down.  The issue is that any mistakes, especially basic ones, gets punished quickly and harshly in tier 10.  (Guess how I know this, LOL)

 

Not sure how many battles you have total in the game, but when tier 10 players see a player with 4k battles, they just think XP farming.  They may probe a bit to check for being a reroll, but if they smell free damage they will pounce.  Personally, I am almost at the point where I am not a liability in tier 10 and can somewhat hold my own at times.  It has taken a while because I did not want to bog my team down and have not played a lot of tier 10.  I also had to drop back down to tier 3-6 to get rid of some bad habits and learn new ones without dying too quickly


Edited by ExploratorOne, Sep 30 2021 - 00:00.


churchill50 #3 Posted Sep 29 2021 - 23:53

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The idea is definitely to gradually build your skills as you move up the tiers.

 

That said, tier 10 is still its own ballgame in a lot of ways. You can be pretty good in tiers 8 and 9 and yet be pretty bad at tier 10.

The method I used, which I still suggest, is to find a tank that's pretty strong and you like playing (I picked the WZ-111 5A back in the day) and spam 200 games in it. Just playing that much tier 10 in a short time frame can help acclimate you to it.

Tanks I would suggest using in the current meta would be the T110E5, S Conq, Vz. 55, Kranvagn, E100, Obj 277, IS-7, and WZ-111 5A. Tanks that are solid, not too difficult to play (as compared to a Leopard I or STB-1), and rather strong.



PAVSon #4 Posted Sep 30 2021 - 00:35

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View Postzerotwo, on Sep 29 2021 - 17:22, said:

I just want to think I stand a chance.

 

I have played 27 Tier 10 games and frankly, I guess there's no point to playing this Tier until I am ready to grind 1000 games in a "top tier" tank? I have only played 27 Tier 10 games, how am I supposed to learn to be good at that tank tier if I'm just going to get wiped out by people with 65% winrates and thousands of T10 battles under their belt? Like in my last few games in the Maus I just sit there aiming at turrets I can't pen with weak spots the size of a sheet of paper? And they fire at me unable to pen until my team dies and then I get swamped.

 

It's frustrating because I want to improve but you can only improve at a game if matched against people in and around your skill level. You don't learn to draw by immediately trying to paint a masterpiece, or learn an instrument by immediately picking up jazz. If you just get brained or get shut out by some thicc turret beast you don't learn anything except not to bother trying.

 

Anyway, other than converting to one of the current flavour of the year broken tanks, what are my options here? Am I right in assuming that Tier 10 is not a place to have fun, but a place to dedicate yourself to grinding away at? Are you supposed to spend 10,000 battles at Tier 7 and then move up? I'm confused how I'm supposed to progress.

 

Thank you kindly for reading this.

Once upon a time a couple of Unicoms wrote a couple of guides . . . I personally think they're generally just as relevant today as they were then:

 

1.) Getting Better at World of Tanks - The Brutal, Simple, and Timely Way

2.) Getting Better at Internet Tanks – The Cuddly, Complex, and Enduring Way

 

Both are still accessible on WOTLabs.

 

This is a game that takes a lot of study if you want to be really good at it! I mean like map positions (micro-positions), reading line ups, knowing armor profiles and penetration values, reload times and on and on. Some may just be able to intuitively pick that stuff up by playing. The thing is that most of us just want to log on and hit the battle button and unwind while shooting red tanks! If you don't want to put anything into it other than hitting the battle button then just be content participating without any real expectations for success!



bad_73 #5 Posted Sep 30 2021 - 00:44

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Thats what happens when you play above yourself...so maybe you get it now?

Markd73 #6 Posted Sep 30 2021 - 02:10

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View Postzerotwo, on Sep 29 2021 - 22:22, said:

I just want to think I stand a chance.

 

I have played 27 Tier 10 games and frankly, I guess there's no point to playing this Tier until I am ready to grind 1000 games in a "top tier" tank? I have only played 27 Tier 10 games, how am I supposed to learn to be good at that tank tier if I'm just going to get wiped out by people with 65% winrates and thousands of T10 battles under their belt? Like in my last few games in the Maus I just sit there aiming at turrets I can't pen with weak spots the size of a sheet of paper? And they fire at me unable to pen until my team dies and then I get swamped.

 

It's frustrating because I want to improve but you can only improve at a game if matched against people in and around your skill level. You don't learn to draw by immediately trying to paint a masterpiece, or learn an instrument by immediately picking up jazz. If you just get brained or get shut out by some thicc turret beast you don't learn anything except not to bother trying.

 

Anyway, other than converting to one of the current flavour of the year broken tanks, what are my options here? Am I right in assuming that Tier 10 is not a place to have fun, but a place to dedicate yourself to grinding away at? Are you supposed to spend 10,000 battles at Tier 7 and then move up? I'm confused how I'm supposed to progress.

 

Thank you kindly for reading this.

 

Really? I always improved at things by competing against better players than me. What can you learn from people who are just as good as you are?

 

 



Projectile_Misfired #7 Posted Sep 30 2021 - 02:29

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View Postzerotwo, on Sep 29 2021 - 22:22, said:

I just want to think I stand a chance.

I have played 27 Tier 10 games and frankly, I guess there's no point to playing this Tier until I am ready to grind 1000 games in a "top tier" tank? I have only played 27 Tier 10 games, how am I supposed to learn to be good at that tank tier if I'm just going to get wiped out by people with 65% winrates and thousands of T10 battles under their belt? Like in my last few games in the Maus I just sit there aiming at turrets I can't pen with weak spots the size of a sheet of paper? And they fire at me unable to pen until my team dies and then I get swamped.

It's frustrating because I want to improve but you can only improve at a game if matched against people in and around your skill level. You don't learn to draw by immediately trying to paint a masterpiece, or learn an instrument by immediately picking up jazz. If you just get brained or get shut out by some thicc turret beast you don't learn anything except not to bother trying.

Anyway, other than converting to one of the current flavour of the year broken tanks, what are my options here? Am I right in assuming that Tier 10 is not a place to have fun, but a place to dedicate yourself to grinding away at? Are you supposed to spend 10,000 battles at Tier 7 and then move up? I'm confused how I'm supposed to progress.

Thank you kindly for reading this.

 

This is a new one. Typically, it's players complaining about the "Red" and "Orange" players or players with less than 10k games running around ruining the game in Tier 10 tanks.

Didn't think I'd see someone complaining about the "good" players running around ruining the game in Tier 10 tanks.

 



WaywardChild #8 Posted Sep 30 2021 - 03:03

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View PostPAVSon, on Sep 29 2021 - 15:35, said:

Once upon a time a couple of Unicoms wrote a couple of guides . . . I personally think they're generally just as relevant today as they were then:

 

1.) Getting Better at World of Tanks - The Brutal, Simple, and Timely Way

2.) Getting Better at Internet Tanks – The Cuddly, Complex, and Enduring Way

 

Both are still accessible on WOTLabs.

 

This is a game that takes a lot of study if you want to be really good at it! I mean like map positions (micro-positions), reading line ups, knowing armor profiles and penetration values, reload times and on and on. Some may just be able to intuitively pick that stuff up by playing. The thing is that most of us just want to log on and hit the battle button and unwind while shooting red tanks! If you don't want to put anything into it other than hitting the battle button then just be content participating without any real expectations for success!

This gets it ^^. You have three great Tier X's. All with different play styles. You have <4k total games. Go be road kill, you will get better. Biggest thing is to try and have fun getting creamed. You will have good game's, relish them. You will have bad game's, learn from them. Stay away from the Lights for now, they will just screw you up. Get 200 games in each of the three, you will be better. Don't sweat the haters, but listen if someone gives you good advice. You will know the difference. Have fun!



Masterpupil #9 Posted Sep 30 2021 - 03:39

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After 10 years, 4k games is simply not enough to compete against some players. The sooner you realize they put more time and effort into becoming better, the better you'll become. It's definitely do-able to outplay these players from time to time, but realistically they have hundreds if not thousands of more hours in this game than you do. 

 

 



Belicia #10 Posted Sep 30 2021 - 06:08

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View PostExploratorOne, on Sep 30 2021 - 10:48, said:

Skills built in Tiers 6 -8 prepare you for the top tiers.  ... Tier 8 is another milestone tier for learning more advanced skills.

 

^This.

 

I wasn't playing tier X until I had around 10,000 battles under my belt.

 

I strongly recommend you play more at the mid-tiers. Tier VIII seems to be the normal training tier for players preparing for tier X.



Zapp__Brannigan #11 Posted Oct 05 2021 - 02:02

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View Postzerotwo, on Sep 29 2021 - 23:22, said:

I just want to think I stand a chance.

 

I have played 27 Tier 10 games and frankly, I guess there's no point to playing this Tier until I am ready to grind 1000 games in a "top tier" tank? I have only played 27 Tier 10 games, how am I supposed to learn to be good at that tank tier if I'm just going to get wiped out by people with 65% winrates and thousands of T10 battles under their belt? Like in my last few games in the Maus I just sit there aiming at turrets I can't pen with weak spots the size of a sheet of paper? And they fire at me unable to pen until my team dies and then I get swamped.

 

It's frustrating because I want to improve but you can only improve at a game if matched against people in and around your skill level. You don't learn to draw by immediately trying to paint a masterpiece, or learn an instrument by immediately picking up jazz. If you just get brained or get shut out by some thicc turret beast you don't learn anything except not to bother trying.

 

Anyway, other than converting to one of the current flavour of the year broken tanks, what are my options here? Am I right in assuming that Tier 10 is not a place to have fun, but a place to dedicate yourself to grinding away at? Are you supposed to spend 10,000 battles at Tier 7 and then move up? I'm confused how I'm supposed to progress.

 

Thank you kindly for reading this.

At 4K battles you are going to get absolutely destroyed at tier 10. 99% of the players there have played 10's of THOUSANDS of games and know their tanks and maps inside and out. Along with having better crews then you AND usually decking out their top tanks with bond equipment. Tiers 5-7 i what I recommend to learn the maps and the (general) strengths/weaknesses of a tank line. 



dunniteowl #12 Posted Oct 05 2021 - 16:26

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OP, no matter how long you've been here, you simply haven't played enough -- nor LEARNED enough -- to have you be effective at ANY tier.

 

To be brutally honest, you just aren't good enough at any tier due to lack of game knowledge.  It's not 1000's of games that will get you this.  We have pretty much all seen plenty of 70,000+ battles Goofs who are playing the same as you at this point, so it's not number of battles.  It's KNOWLEDGE that makes all the difference in this game.

 

Yeah, sure, you have to play tier 10 to get good at tier 10, but you have to be good to begin with, don't you?  Right now, your stats indicate, in the words of Egret from Game of Thrones, "You know nothing, John Snow."

 

So, what do you do to :

View Postzerotwo, on Sep 29 2021 - 16:22, said:

I just want to think I stand a chance.

 

I have played 27 Tier 10 games and frankly, I guess there's no point to playing this Tier until I am ready to grind 1000 games in a "top tier" tank? I have only played 27 Tier 10 games, how am I supposed to learn to be good at that tank tier if I'm just going to get wiped out by people with 65% winrates and thousands of T10 battles under their belt? Like in my last few games in the Maus I just sit there aiming at turrets I can't pen with weak spots the size of a sheet of paper? And they fire at me unable to pen until my team dies and then I get swamped.

 

It's frustrating because I want to improve but you can only improve at a game if matched against people in and around your skill level. You don't learn to draw by immediately trying to paint a masterpiece, or learn an instrument by immediately picking up jazz. If you just get brained or get shut out by some thicc turret beast you don't learn anything except not to bother trying.

 

Anyway, other than converting to one of the current flavour of the year broken tanks, what are my options here? Am I right in assuming that Tier 10 is not a place to have fun, but a place to dedicate yourself to grinding away at? Are you supposed to spend 10,000 battles at Tier 7 and then move up? I'm confused how I'm supposed to progress.

 

Thank you kindly for reading this.

 

The blue section is your own intelligent response to the situation.  The yellow section is what you did with it.

 

You literally understand that you can't pick up the paintbrush and draw a masterpiece and then you go out and try to compete with masters.  How honestly crazy is that, when you get right down to it.  You personally KNOW better, but did it anyway.  So the yellow highlighting is your WARNING to not be that purposely wrong.

 

The blue part can be addressed by using this:  The WoT Welcome Package (version 1)

 

You know, you can learn a lot by just reading and watching BEFORE attempting to paint a masterpiece.  Maybe right now you need to learn how the "Color Wheel" works for mixing paint to get the shades of nuance and experience in mixing, BEFORE you attempt to render that 'masterpiece' of yours?  Perhaps you need to study the theory of color before applying a brush to the paints?  Perhaps you should spend some time LEARNING from masters by watching them paint before you toss your canvas on the easel and start elbowing your way past them to see the image you're attempting to paint?

 

Taking the time to understand the tools you are using, the concepts that you are attempting to emulate and the tactics, tricks, tips and techniques that the better players use BEFORE jumping into the deep end of the pool, where, ostensibly, the better swimmers and fancy pool divers reside, is a more effective use of your time and effort.

 

Let me PAINT you a picture for a bit.  Please, don't take offense, this is for ILLUSTRATION only.

 

Of all your tiers played, the best tier you played in was tier V.  48.96% WR.  All tiers you have played past that level are showing that you have more trouble as you go up tier.  You have nearly double the battles played at tier V in tiers VII and VIII and you are doing less well in those than you did in tier V.  Do you suppose that it's a multi-part 'solution' you seek?

 

In this I mean, drop down to tier V, where most folks are closer to you in overall physical experience at the game (around 5k battles) and comprehension of the game's mechanics.  Play there until you reach a level of 'improvement' you can be happy with before you start trying to paint with the higher tier players.

 

If you are supposed to learn by playing folks of your caliber, then you have to go to the tiers where 'your caliber' has been measured to be that of the player base in general at that tier and not against folks who will generally smash you like the Hulk when you expose your tank to fire.

 

This is where you really ought to start: The WoT Welcome Package (version 1)

 

I'm not here to tell you what to do or how to play.  I'm only doing my best to address your issues that revolve around you asking for help.  This is the best 'help' I can provide.  What's in that package is the distilled knowledge of many really good players that have taken the time to impart what they know to the rest of us who are seeking improvement and hope, one day, to be close to as good as them.  If you want an improvement in your gaming, then you have to improve yourself and The WoT Welcome Package (version 1) WILL help you in that objective IF you are honest with yourself and are assiduous in your attention to improvement.

 

It's a hard road to getting better.  There are no 'shortcuts' you can take, no 'other paths' and no forward progress if you step off that path.

 

I know you are frustrated.  I get it.  I put The WoT Welcome Package (version 1) together for ME first.  When I placed all this in one bucket, so to speak I did so with all the materials that helped ME get better at playing this game.  I am by no means a great player.  However, thanks to the information in that set of links, I am by no means a bad player, either.  I was before I got hold of that stuff.

 

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!
OvO



BoghieWanKanobie #13 Posted Oct 08 2021 - 01:39

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ZeroTwo,

 

Review your own stats via Clan Tools - Player Lookup.

 

There are other good stat sites out there - namely, WoTLABs, Tanks.gg, Tomato.gg, and WoTStats. The recommendation for 'Clan Tools' is simply because you can filter by tier.  Be honest with yourself.  Understand that only 6% of players have a WR <= 46%, 20% <= 47%, 40% <= 49%, etc..  What this means, in the context of tiers, is that to be ready for the next tier you should be rolling a 50% WR with about a 1K Wn8 in your current tier.  At that point you are a C/B student.  Right now, not so much.

 

You have to get better to be competitive.  Where else do you want the Mahou guys playing tanks - in Tier IV?  Pay your dues and be ready for them.  Start by reading the threads posted by DunnitOwl above.



FoggyLogic #14 Posted Oct 11 2021 - 18:25

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You can't complain after only 27 games at tier X. You're just getting your feet wet (as am I). Tier IX does prepare you somewhat as you have to go up against tier X tanks, but the all tier X games have a faster pace and the price of making mistakes is usually a brutal spanking.

 

This however, flummoxes me: "It's frustrating because I want to improve but you can only improve at a game if matched against people in and around your skill level. You don't learn to draw by immediately trying to paint a masterpiece, or learn an instrument by immediately picking up jazz. If you just get brained or get shut out by some thicc turret beast you don't learn anything except not to bother trying."

 

WRONG. If you play with other players at your skill level you'll never learn a thing, other than what you discover organically, which is limited. I learn from watching, playing with, and being punished by them all the time. "Oh wow, look what he did." or "I didn't know you could do that." etc. It may be painful and frustrating, but you won't play up to their level unless you play with them. You don't learn to paint by looking at crappy art, and you don't learn to play music by listening to the neighbor's kid play chopsticks.

 

I grew up playing hockey in NY and my family moved to Montreal when I was 10, for a few years. Talk about an education. It was a whole new game. My improvement was dramatic but it was painful and frustrating for quite awhile.

 

Another means of gaining game experience, to a degree, is watching some streamers. Some are actually pretty good at talking outload about what is going through their head as they are playing. A favorite of mine is Skill4ltu who I have learned a lot from. He's not for everyone, but he knows his stuff and is a relatively good communicator.

 

FYI I think both of those schools of thought in the two links provided above have merit...and probably most merit if combined, since they are not mutually exclusive.


Edited by FoggyLogic, Oct 11 2021 - 18:42.


extracheesey #15 Posted Oct 11 2021 - 18:39

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View Postzerotwo, on Sep 29 2021 - 23:22, said:

I just want to think I stand a chance.

 

I have played 27 Tier 10 games and frankly, I guess there's no point to playing this Tier until I am ready to grind 1000 games in a "top tier" tank? I have only played 27 Tier 10 games, how am I supposed to learn to be good at that tank tier if I'm just going to get wiped out by people with 65% winrates and thousands of T10 battles under their belt? Like in my last few games in the Maus I just sit there aiming at turrets I can't pen with weak spots the size of a sheet of paper? And they fire at me unable to pen until my team dies and then I get swamped.

 

It's frustrating because I want to improve but you can only improve at a game if matched against people in and around your skill level. You don't learn to draw by immediately trying to paint a masterpiece, or learn an instrument by immediately picking up jazz. If you just get brained or get shut out by some thicc turret beast you don't learn anything except not to bother trying.

 

Anyway, other than converting to one of the current flavour of the year broken tanks, what are my options here? Am I right in assuming that Tier 10 is not a place to have fun, but a place to dedicate yourself to grinding away at? Are you supposed to spend 10,000 battles at Tier 7 and then move up? I'm confused how I'm supposed to progress.

 

Thank you kindly for reading this.

 You are complaining about facing players that fall into the top 1% of the player base.  There aren't enough of those players to worry about and whoever told you to download XVM for in-game stats, did you a disservice.  Fortunately, there is some very good advice here.  You should follow it and don't get discouraged.  Many players, even mediocre ones, try hard in tier 10, which may take some getting used to.



uberdice #16 Posted Oct 12 2021 - 05:07

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View Postextracheesey, on Oct 12 2021 - 03:39, said:

 You are complaining about facing players that fall into the top 1% of the player base.  There aren't enough of those players to worry about and whoever told you to download XVM for in-game stats, did you a disservice.  Fortunately, there is some very good advice here.  You should follow it and don't get discouraged.  Many players, even mediocre ones, try hard in tier 10, which may take some getting used to.

That top 1% isn't evenly distributed across tiers, though. You're definitely going to see them more often when playing tier 10 because they're also the same people who can stay credit-positive at high tiers.



FoggyLogic #17 Posted Oct 12 2021 - 14:01

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View Postuberdice, on Oct 12 2021 - 05:07, said:

That top 1% isn't evenly distributed across tiers, though. You're definitely going to see them more often when playing tier 10 because they're also the same people who can stay credit-positive at high tiers.

 

Bingo. And that's the way it should be. Tier X is the pinnacle of the game, and it's where the truly good players spend a disproportionate amount of their time, enjoying the challenge of playing against other good players and enjoying the performance of the tanks. Obviously it's rewarding to them or they would not be doing it. They could be seal clubbing at lower tiers but they are not.

 

Grinding your way up the tiers is an education, and I think everyone will agree that when they first moved up a tier there was a learning period during which they learned new things about the game, aside from just the tanks they had not encountered before, and that it could be frustrating and painful for a bit.

 

Back to the OP, as I said earlier 27 games is way too few to come to any conclusions about what is required to succeed at tier X.  As for starting tier X in a Maus, I think that was a poor choice and a recipe for frustration. You would have been better served with a medium or more mobile heavy to acquire an understanding of higher-level positioning, tank capabilities and tactics. The Maus is just a giant pinata with a very specific role and you could argue that in it's own way it's a demanding tank to play skill-wise. It's not a coincidence that very good players avoid it and make fun of it for the most part. It's also not a coincidence that they can make it work a lot of the time, but still complain that if things don't go well you're a sitting duck.

 

 


Edited by FoggyLogic, Oct 12 2021 - 14:02.


sierra7 #18 Posted Oct 14 2021 - 02:37

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Greetings zerotwo,

 

Some great advice posted here already.  As others have mentioned at 4000 odd battles you are probably not ready to be competitive at tier 10.  Get great at tier 5 through 8 and then start dipping your feet in the water.

 

FWIW I am only now starting to kick some [edited]on a good day at tier 10.  And some days I just get slaughtered.  At tier 10 there is little margin when you make a mistake and experience is a harsh tutor.

 

Some tanks I enjoy at tier 10:  WZ111 5A, IS-7, Super Conqueror, Object 140, and 430U.  Interestingly enough, the IS-7 has been around longer than most tanks but it seems competitive and it is a lot of fun to play.

 

 

 






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