34 replies to this topic

[Alpha_Boomer_Nemesis]

F4U_wingman, on Apr 22 2022 - 11:19, said:

I only look at the word "handicap" and see how it is used in our life today and as you see it WoT is not rated as a competitive sport...

1. a disadvantage imposed on a superior competitor in sports such as golf, horse racing, and competitive sailing in order to make the chances more equal.

and as for some of us in that player base it is like you are saying I don't care and no handicap parking for you....

a condition that markedly restricts a person's ability to function physically, mentally, or socially:

 

handicaps exist in those sports, yes, but in m ost not in a prefessional circuit or league. pro tours in golf for example have no handicaps
and what youre asking for is a system designed to make it more diffficult for good players to win, and easier for bad players to prosper

[Alpha_Boomer_Nemesis]

ratpak, on Apr 22 2022 - 11:03, said:

wow, you are totally right.  I will go tell my blind cousin he made a bad choice when he didn't go for his dream to be a nascar driver.

this is a GAME they can have "Tech Tree tanks tournys" and "all tanks tournys" both.

 

 

 

sure they can, and your cousin has the same opportunity as anyone else
just because hes blind and would probably crash himself into a wall in the first 100 meters doesnt mean he couldnt try
nothing Im saying points at there not being the ability to have tech tree tank tourneys
thats not the point
the point is, everyone has equal access to the same things in this GAME and they are limited by their ability or choice.
NOT some rule or law that keeps them oppressed

[F4U_wingman]

Projectile_Misfired, on Apr 22 2022 - 07:03, said:

Well, if the tournament is supposed to reward players for their skills against others, and not what tanks they may/may not have, why not let the "tournament" decide what tank players will use?

WG could give each participant the same tank, with the same crew skills, and the same loadouts/setups, and change it from tournament to tournament.

So, for example, today would be "Ikv 103 tournament", where everyone uses an Ikv 103. Then the next tournament could be "WZ-132A tournament" with everyone using a WZ-132A. Then the next tournament could be "Chieftain tournament"....even if the players don't have one in their garage, they get to use a preset one that's just like the one their enemy will use.

 

Why didn't I think about this... way much easier... but still need to include this idea to the groups with the PR of players

[yruputin]

CmdrPurple, on Apr 22 2022 - 06:34, said:

 

We'll assume that you are telling the truth: You have never lost to a Chieftain. At 2441 WN8 after 423 battles in the S Conq, I would consider you an expert in it, although your 48.70% in it says you've must have been on bad teams more than not. In any case, assuming you are telling the truth about your record against Chieftains, that's what it takes to win against one. Although interestingly enough, the last time you played it was in 2021, well before the Chieftain was so common. I wonder if your record would stand if you had to play 3 or 4 Chieftains per tournament. 

 

In any case, I am not trying to attack you - I apologize if it reads that way. I'm just making my case: You have failed to convince me to keep on playing 1v1 tier 10 tournaments. 

Well said . The players like that one are huge fans of W.o.T. so treading on them is treacherous.

[yruputin]

australian_meatpie, on Apr 22 2022 - 10:02, said:

i have never lost to a chieftain in a s conq

you don't have a Chieftain to play,right?

 

Edited by yruputin, Apr 22 2022 - 17:46.

[_GeorgePreddy_II]

Why Waste My Time With 1v1 Tier 10 Battles

Started by CmdrPurple, Apr 22 2022 - 05:52

 

 

Why, indeed?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ErnieWrecker]

Alpha_Boomer_Nemesis, on Apr 22 2022 - 17:28, said:

sure they can, and your cousin has the same opportunity as anyone else
just because hes blind and would probably crash himself into a wall in the first 100 meters doesnt mean he couldnt try
nothing Im saying points at there not being the ability to have tech tree tank tourneys
thats not the point
the point is, everyone has equal access to the same things in this GAME and they are limited by their ability or choice.
NOT some rule or law that keeps them oppressed

You're obviously biased.

For a balanced tournament that ranks players by skill:

-all participants should have access to the same tanks for event matches. Nobody should have to buy or otherwise earn them.

-number of crew skills should be the same across the board.

-consumables should be the same across the board.

-ammo should be the same across the board.

-equipment, whether it be regular, bounty, or bond equipment, should be the same across the board.

 

The argument you're making is just plain stupid and amounts to giving more of an advantage to players that already have an advantage. Sure, you can reason that everyone has equal access to the same things, but not everyone has equal time to sit and grind for tanks/crew experience/credits nor money to be buying premium tanks. A tournament like this should be based on who plays their chosen tank(s) better without having the better crew, equipment, reward tanks, or more time/money to burn variables thrown in. I don't even see why this would be an issue for a player with your stats.

[Alpha_Boomer_Nemesis]

ErnieWrecker, on Apr 26 2022 - 17:33, said:

You're obviously biased.

For a balanced tournament that ranks players by skill:

-all participants should have access to the same tanks for event matches. Nobody should have to buy or otherwise earn them.

-number of crew skills should be the same across the board.

-consumables should be the same across the board.

-ammo should be the same across the board.

-equipment, whether it be regular, bounty, or bond equipment, should be the same across the board.

 

The argument you're making is just plain stupid and amounts to giving more of an advantage to players that already have an advantage. Sure, you can reason that everyone has equal access to the same things, but not everyone has equal time to sit and grind for tanks/crew experience/credits nor money to be buying premium tanks. A tournament like this should be based on who plays their chosen tank(s) better without having the better crew, equipment, reward tanks, or more time/money to burn variables thrown in. I don't even see why this would be an issue for a player with your stats.

Stupid would be the idea that people dont all have the same opportunities to access the in game resources as everyone else.
ITs not my fault you dont understand the argument or the point Im making.
Playes who are better shouldnt be handicapped just because other players are worse at the game or dont want to make the same commitment.

[ErnieWrecker]

Alpha_Boomer_Nemesis, on Apr 27 2022 - 05:21, said:

Stupid would be the idea that people dont all have the same opportunities to access the in game resources as everyone else.
ITs not my fault you dont understand the argument or the point Im making.
Playes who are better shouldnt be handicapped just because other players are worse at the game or dont want to make the same commitment.

 

Ok, explain to me how you would be handicapped then! Do enlighten us, because you contradict yourself in the above statement. 

You have crews with 8 or more skills, a lot more bounty/bond equipment, earn enough credits to spam premium ammo at everything in tournaments without it impacting your credits, and most importantly, a lot more playing experience in conjunction with map knowledge vs. the average player. I fail to see how you're going to be at a disadvantage unless your record does not accurately reflect your actual skill.

 

This isn't a discussion about equal opportunity. With enough time, even a tomato can get enough bond equipment to outfit several or more tanks.

We're talking about 1 vs. 1 Tier X(or any other tier for that matter) tournaments that are suppose to rank players by their skill in how well they play their selected tanks. It makes absolutely no sense to give players that already have a huge advantage further additional bonuses of better equipment, crews, reward tanks, etc. You have this attitude that because you planted yourself in front of a computer and played WoT obsessively to get to where you are today, you're somehow entitled to more. Well, you already get that in random matches, clan wars, etc. If you can't handle going up against other players, good or bad, in a tournament on an even playing field with respect to available vehicles, crew skills, equipment, etc., then perhaps you're not so good.

[_GeorgePreddy_II]

Ernie;

 

What you are failing to grasp is that everything WoT does comes through the WG filter of "Will this make money in the short or long term, or BOTH is even better."

 

If WG thought that having tier 10, 1 vs. 1 tourneys with everything completely equal, would make MORE money than the current rules, then you would have your way.

 

Obviously, they don't think so, because it hasn't happened.

You can keep on beating the dead horse of "ethics based" tourneys (as you see them),

or you can play the tourneys the way they are, or you can stop playing the tourneys.

 

Those are really your only choices... "everything equal" tourneys are not likely to ever happen. Because WG believes (obviously) they would NOT make money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alpha_Boomer_Nemesis]

ErnieWrecker, on May 01 2022 - 03:35, said:

 

Ok, explain to me how you would be handicapped then! Do enlighten us, because you contradict yourself in the above statement. 

You have crews with 8 or more skills, a lot more bounty/bond equipment, earn enough credits to spam premium ammo at everything in tournaments without it impacting your credits, and most importantly, a lot more playing experience in conjunction with map knowledge vs. the average player. I fail to see how you're going to be at a disadvantage unless your record does not accurately reflect your actual skill.

 

This isn't a discussion about equal opportunity. With enough time, even a tomato can get enough bond equipment to outfit several or more tanks.

We're talking about 1 vs. 1 Tier X(or any other tier for that matter) tournaments that are suppose to rank players by their skill in how well they play their selected tanks. It makes absolutely no sense to give players that already have a huge advantage further additional bonuses of better equipment, crews, reward tanks, etc. You have this attitude that because you planted yourself in front of a computer and played WoT obsessively to get to where you are today, you're somehow entitled to more. Well, you already get that in random matches, clan wars, etc. If you can't handle going up against other players, good or bad, in a tournament on an even playing field with respect to available vehicles, crew skills, equipment, etc., then perhaps you're not so good.

If you were smart enough to follow the conversation, you would see that the person I was referring to with the handicap comment suggested creating a system that made it more difficult for good players.
Though I doubt youre that smart.
And as far as playing "obsessively" considering the amount of time of been in the game longer than you, my play time vs amount of games isnt that different.
Youre just another bad player with victim complex that blames everything but yourself for being bad.

And it absolutely is a discussion about equal opportunity. No one denies anything form these players that dont invest the time or effort. No one but themselves.
you said everyone should have access to the same things. They do. If theyplay and purchase or earn those things.
Much like in any sport where not every team may have the same equipment and coaching staff because they dont have the same money to pay or offer.

You talk about the huge advantages of equipment and such. Selection of equipment, crew skills, etc is also a skill. Many bad players have no idea what equipment should be used or skills should be trained or what order or how they work in the first place.

As far as the knowledge earned, yes EARNED by comitting the time to the game, EARNED by dedicating good chunks of time to get those tanks.

Im not opposed to reward tanks not being allowed in these tournies.
I am however opposed to other handicaps and stupid rules made to take away from good players who are good mostly becuase they invested the time and effort to BE good, Especially when the majority of the reaosn that most present is that they dont want to have to face actual good competition.

People like you dont want to actually level the playing field. They want it tipped in their favor by removing real competition.

[__WarChild__]

CmdrPurple, on Apr 21 2022 - 23:34, said:

We'll assume that you are telling the truth: You have never lost to a Chieftain. At 2441 WN8 after 423 battles in the S Conq, I would consider you an expert in it, although your 48.70% in it says you've must have been on bad teams more than not. In any case, assuming you are telling the truth about your record against Chieftains, that's what it takes to win against one. Although interestingly enough, the last time you played it was in 2021, well before the Chieftain was so common. I wonder if your record would stand if you had to play 3 or 4 Chieftains per tournament. 

 

In any case, I am not trying to attack you - I apologize if it reads that way. I'm just making my case: You have failed to convince me to keep on playing 1v1 tier 10 tournaments. 

 

It really doesn't matter if you believe me or not. Not sure what lying would do for me here as I am trying to give you advice.  The fact is, especially on most flat maps, the Chieftain is not hard to penetrate and the extra HP and DPM of the SC makes all the difference. Depending on the player, the map and the spawn, I more often than not will select the SC if I believe my opponent is bringing a Chief especially if they are a very good player.

 

FYI - It is impossible to look at my stats on a tank and make a valid judgment. I don't try to mark, farm win8 or do any of the things that make me look good on paper. I simply try to win each battle and MM decides whether it wants to give me a chance to do that.  I mostly play the FV4005 at Tier X now just for the fun of it.  I'm not applying to any clans, or trying to impress someone with my stats.  I'm playing mostly for fun these days, at least until my clan returns from hibernation, and that's doing missions, tournaments and streams.

 

Best of luck figuring it out.  

 

__WarChild__

[ErnieWrecker]

Alpha_Boomer_Nemesis, on May 02 2022 - 07:19, said:

If you were smart enough to follow the conversation, you would see that the person I was referring to with the handicap comment suggested creating a system that made it more difficult for good players.
Though I doubt youre that smart.
And as far as playing "obsessively" considering the amount of time of been in the game longer than you, my play time vs amount of games isnt that different.
Youre just another bad player with victim complex that blames everything but yourself for being bad.

And it absolutely is a discussion about equal opportunity. No one denies anything form these players that dont invest the time or effort. No one but themselves.
you said everyone should have access to the same things. They do. If theyplay and purchase or earn those things.
Much like in any sport where not every team may have the same equipment and coaching staff because they dont have the same money to pay or offer.

You talk about the huge advantages of equipment and such. Selection of equipment, crew skills, etc is also a skill. Many bad players have no idea what equipment should be used or skills should be trained or what order or how they work in the first place.

As far as the knowledge earned, yes EARNED by comitting the time to the game, EARNED by dedicating good chunks of time to get those tanks.

Im not opposed to reward tanks not being allowed in these tournies.
I am however opposed to other handicaps and stupid rules made to take away from good players who are good mostly becuase they invested the time and effort to BE good, Especially when the majority of the reaosn that most present is that they dont want to have to face actual good competition.

People like you dont want to actually level the playing field. They want it tipped in their favor by removing real competition.

No, I agree that they shouldn't be penalizing better players. That would be doing the same exact thing to them and curving the game's favor towards bad players, which wouldn't make any sense either since this equates to rewarding players for driving their tanks while drunk. I think of it as football or any other sport. When they're competing, they don't have a game breaking advantage over the competition with the added advantage of enhancements that the other team/individual does not have. Sure, the underdog will eventually have access to the same perks and such, but I don't think this is a legitimate reason to have slanted tournaments. They're already going to be rofl-stomped on an even playing field, why further increase the gap.

Either way, it doesn't matter to me because I don't have any skin in the game with regards to tournaments. I have neither the time or desire to compete at a level where it becomes more of a job and less of a game.

 

_GeorgePreddy_II, on May 01 2022 - 15:12, said:

Ernie;

 

What you are failing to grasp is that everything WoT does comes through the WG filter of "Will this make money in the short or long term, or BOTH is even better."

 

If WG thought that having tier 10, 1 vs. 1 tourneys with everything completely equal, would make MORE money than the current rules, then you would have your way.

 

Obviously, they don't think so, because it hasn't happened.

You can keep on beating the dead horse of "ethics based" tourneys (as you see them),

or you can play the tourneys the way they are, or you can stop playing the tourneys.

 

Those are really your only choices... "everything equal" tourneys are not likely to ever happen. Because WG believes (obviously) they would NOT make money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's part of the problem. They want more money for less effort and one of the ways to do that is design the game with a pay-to-win element. This way, they don't have to spend as much time & effort with making new content to attract more paying customers. We already know from past events, tanks, etc., that WG's a bit lacking in the math department. On the other side, there's the issue of free-to-play. Not enough players want to pay for a subscription, so this is what we get: free-to-play, pay-to-win/progress, with a less polished game where players are the beta testers.

[CautionImAPotato]

Ramrod__, on Apr 22 2022 - 09:04, said:

I do not worry when I play against Chieftain in a tournament because I won't play to his tanks strengths.  If you let a Chief force a hull down sniping type of game where he can take advantage of his armor profile then it is very tough.  I normally run a 430U and go make it an up close and in your face brawl where his armor is not very good.  I run about 75-80% wins against Chief drivers, no matter their ratings.  The SC is a far tougher opponent in 1V1's which is why so many players use it in tournament play even if they have a Chieftain in their garage.

Then you must have been up against pretty bad Chief players. Any good Chief player will beat you in your 430u by using good positioning and marksmanship. Also, S Conq is not necessarily a "far tougher opponent" than Chief. Considering you see mostly S Conqs in these 1v1s, an S Conq will maybe only be better than Chief when a brawl happens and that said S Conq has closed the distance. Even then, if a Chief and S Conq are facehugging, S Conq's armor is giving it a disadvantage because it's worse than Chief's armor(considering both players gun block and the like). S Conq is considerably slower than Chief(not to mention worse armor) and that alone gives it a huge advantage even though S Conq has more hp and has slightly better dpm than Chief.

S Conq might have an advantage over a Chief especially against tanks that don't have good dpm or when speed doesn't matter but any tank that has HEAT can be a huge problem against S Conq becuase it's frontal armor is butter to HEAT.

Edited by CautionImAPotato, May 10 2022 - 18:21.

[_GeorgePreddy_II]

ErnieWrecker, on May 03 2022 - 22:46, said:

 They want more money for less effort and one of the ways to do that is design the game with a pay-to-win element. This way, they don't have to spend as much time & effort with making new content to attract more paying customers. We already know from past events, tanks, etc., that WG's a bit lacking in the math department. On the other side, there's the issue of free-to-play. Not enough players want to pay for a subscription, so this is what we get: free-to-play, pay-to-win/progress, with a less polished game where players are the beta testers.

 

And yet, WoT is still, by far the best tank game available (in my opinion).

 

I don't let anything they do bother me much, because first world problems are not so important.

 

I play WoT every day and enjoy it greatly.

 

C'est la vie.