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What make a T10 gun that tier


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CamaroSS_2015 #1 Posted May 13 2022 - 19:07

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I was able to finally get the T10 gun on the T28 Proto only to find I'm bouncing off so many tanks. Then I looked at the specs to see that the gun has a pen rating of 248/297/60. From some search I found on here, the minimum a gun needs to pen at the T10 level is around 260 and for Tier 9 around 245... So, if I am shooting gold, then yes, this is definitely a T10 gun but shooting standard ammo that would make this a tier 9 gun.

 

Does WG classify gun level based upon the GOLD ammo it shoots and not the AP? It seems this may be the case for this tank. There are battles that I have to shoot gold because otherwise it will not pen a thing... specially when I'm that -2 tank... which seems to occur a lot on this tank...

 

I guess this is more of a PSA (realization) for me and if correct, maybe help others in determining if they are going to grind a gun that they think is a tier or 2 higher..

 

joe...



Anzhelia #2 Posted May 13 2022 - 19:11

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Nothing. It's just a label.

Projectile_Misfired #3 Posted May 13 2022 - 19:57

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View PostCamaroSS_2015, on May 13 2022 - 18:07, said:

I was able to finally get the T10 gun on the T28 Proto only to find I'm bouncing off so many tanks. Then I looked at the specs to see that the gun has a pen rating of 248/297/60. From some search I found on here, the minimum a gun needs to pen at the T10 level is around 260 and for Tier 9 around 245... So, if I am shooting gold, then yes, this is definitely a T10 gun but shooting standard ammo that would make this a tier 9 gun.

Does WG classify gun level based upon the GOLD ammo it shoots and not the AP? It seems this may be the case for this tank. There are battles that I have to shoot gold because otherwise it will not pen a thing... specially when I'm that -2 tank... which seems to occur a lot on this tank...

I guess this is more of a PSA (realization) for me and if correct, maybe help others in determining if they are going to grind a gun that they think is a tier or 2 higher..

joe...

 

Where did you find that info? And, what was that value based on?

Just a quick, random search of about 15 various Tier 10 Meds and Heavies indicate that many of them have "less than" 260mm pen for their "Standard" AP round.   

 



Dr_Powderfinger #4 Posted May 13 2022 - 20:04

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I believe any "tier 10" designation on a gun refers to it's position in the tech tree hierarchy, and not any specific benchmarks related to it's penetration capabilities.

 

In other words they all need to be looked at individually.

 

 



CamaroSS_2015 #5 Posted May 13 2022 - 20:25

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View PostProjectile_Misfired, on May 13 2022 - 12:57, said:

 

Where did you find that info? And, what was that value based on?

Just a quick, random search of about 15 various Tier 10 Meds and Heavies indicate that many of them have "less than" 260mm pen for their "Standard" AP round.   

 

 

 

http://forum.worldof...ation-per-tier/



13Jake55 #6 Posted May 13 2022 - 20:57

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I would say a tier 10 gun could be mounted on a tier 10 tank regardless of pen. Purely a subjective tag and really not indicative of a guna capability although my Ferdi's gun is pretty good.



Kramah313 #7 Posted May 13 2022 - 21:18

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View PostCamaroSS_2015, on May 13 2022 - 13:25, said:


This thread was discussing “ideal” penetration per tier. There are a lot of tanks with less than than ideal penetration that can still pen. You just have to be able to hit weaker spots or flank to do it. There’s a lot of difference between “ideal” and minimum functional penetration per tier. That gun on the T28 prototype has penetration and damage values close to some guns at tier 10, such as IS-7 or 60TP, along with decent alpha damage, DPM, and accuracy. If you’re bouncing with that destroyer of worlds gun, you’re probably either shooting the front of tier 10 heavies (it isn’t quite THAT good) or your accuracy is not good because you aren’t fully aiming or maybe your crew and equipment isn’t quite up to par yet. The T28 has a better version of that gun, I found it a bit derpy at times on the prototype. The E4 can be similar by the way, so can the T30. You should be able to deal with any tier 8 frontally with that gun if you shoot lower plates, probably just about any tier 9 too, but you need to make sure it’s aimed and doesn’t derp into the upper plate or a turret. I was not a fan of the T28 prototype, but the T30 is very fun.


Try some extra gun handling equipment. That line can’t use a Vstab (if only) so you’ll have to experiment. The T30 and E4 are two of the very few tanks I run a gun laying drive on. I tried IRM but the aimtime is just too slow for me. On E4 I use both an IRM and a GLD though, the E4 cant fully traverse the turret so you want better turning in addition to gun handling. 
 

Good luck!



13Jake55 #8 Posted May 13 2022 - 21:54

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The Charioteer tier X gun has 268/210/105 pen on it.

CamaroSS_2015 #9 Posted May 13 2022 - 22:01

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View PostKramah313, on May 13 2022 - 14:18, said:


This thread was discussing “ideal” penetration per tier. There are a lot of tanks with less than than ideal penetration that can still pen. You just have to be able to hit weaker spots or flank to do it. There’s a lot of difference between “ideal” and minimum functional penetration per tier. That gun on the T28 prototype has penetration and damage values close to some guns at tier 10, such as IS-7 or 60TP, along with decent alpha damage, DPM, and accuracy. If you’re bouncing with that destroyer of worlds gun, you’re probably either shooting the front of tier 10 heavies (it isn’t quite THAT good) or your accuracy is not good because you aren’t fully aiming or maybe your crew and equipment isn’t quite up to par yet. The T28 has a better version of that gun, I found it a bit derpy at times on the prototype. The E4 can be similar by the way, so can the T30. You should be able to deal with any tier 8 frontally with that gun if you shoot lower plates, probably just about any tier 9 too, but you need to make sure it’s aimed and doesn’t derp into the upper plate or a turret. I was not a fan of the T28 prototype, but the T30 is very fun.


Try some extra gun handling equipment. That line can’t use a Vstab (if only) so you’ll have to experiment. The T30 and E4 are two of the very few tanks I run a gun laying drive on. I tried IRM but the aimtime is just too slow for me. On E4 I use both an IRM and a GLD though, the E4 cant fully traverse the turret so you want better turning in addition to gun handling. 
 

Good luck!

 

Well, for one thing, I just got my crew to 100% and are at about 40% on their first set of skills so my crew skills are definitely lacking ... And I do have sights on the T30 which from what I hear is 100% better then the T28 Proto.  I do have some good equipment but its just the regular and not bonded... When I'm playing equal tier, I end up doing good (for me).. when I'm top tier, I always over extend myself and end up getting kicked in the a$$ which I know is a "me" issue that I need to work on.

 

I do like this tank but I find its either feast or famine for me.

 

joe...

 

 

 

 



Kramah313 #10 Posted May 13 2022 - 22:18

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View PostCamaroSS_2015, on May 13 2022 - 15:01, said:

 

Well, for one thing, I just got my crew to 100% and are at about 40% on their first set of skills so my crew skills are definitely lacking ... And I do have sights on the T30 which from what I hear is 100% better then the T28 Proto.  I do have some good equipment but its just the regular and not bonded... When I'm playing equal tier, I end up doing good (for me).. when I'm top tier, I always over extend myself and end up getting kicked in the a$$ which I know is a "me" issue that I need to work on.

 

I do like this tank but I find its either feast or famine for me.

 

joe...

 

 

 

 


The good part is if you like the prototype at tier the E4 plays similar IMO. You need to get those crew skills up some, that will help. And the T30 is a keeper. 
 



Ehrlichmann #11 Posted May 14 2022 - 00:10

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WG says so...and you know everything they say is (cough, hack, wheeze) the truth.

The_Happiest_Husky #12 Posted May 14 2022 - 00:14

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View PostEhrlichmann, on May 13 2022 - 15:10, said:

cough, hack, wheeze

Ohno do u have covid?



goldfinger_555 #13 Posted May 14 2022 - 01:04

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OP, you'll find tier 9 much more friendly. I hate going through tier 8s on grinds.

Draschel #14 Posted May 14 2022 - 01:22

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View PostCamaroSS_2015, on May 13 2022 - 22:01, said:

 

Well, for one thing, I just got my crew to 100% and are at about 40% on their first set of skills so my crew skills are definitely lacking ... 

 

Problem identified.

 

Listen man, not to sound pretentious and snide, but people who know what they are doing are going to read this, and immediately see what the problem is. Not me, but many people. 

Bouncing may very well be a gun handling issue. And as it stands, what you have described, probably is the gun handling is just off. Get a 4 skill crew. 



uberdice #15 Posted May 14 2022 - 01:22

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Module tier is a meaningless descriptor and should be ignored.

 

It's like focusing on the firepower and survivability ratings of tanks in the garage. Unless you're looking at the underlying stats, you're not actually getting any actionable information.

 

View PostDraschel, on May 14 2022 - 10:22, said:

 

Problem identified.

 

Listen man, not to sound pretentious and snide, but people who know what they are doing are going to read this, and immediately see what the problem is. Not me, but many people. 

Bouncing may very well be a gun handling issue. And as it stands, what you have described, probably is the gun handling is just off. Get a 4 skill crew. 

 

You don't need a 4 skill crew for a fresh tier 8, wth.

 

What's more likely is that OP isn't managing his range and target selection properly.



Kramah313 #16 Posted May 14 2022 - 01:29

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View PostDraschel, on May 13 2022 - 18:22, said:

 

Problem identified.

 

Listen man, not to sound pretentious and snide, but people who know what they are doing are going to read this, and immediately see what the problem is. Not me, but many people. 

Bouncing may very well be a gun handling issue. And as it stands, what you have described, probably is the gun handling is just off. Get a 4 skill crew. 


I think the gun handling will improve for him with a better crew. On a line that can’t use Vstab, adding bia and snap/smooth will be noticeable IMO. 



Draschel #17 Posted May 14 2022 - 02:13

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View PostKramah313, on May 14 2022 - 01:29, said:


I think the gun handling will improve for him with a better crew. On a line that can’t use Vstab, adding bia and snap/smooth will be noticeable IMO. 

 

It isn't hellcat. Worlds better.

I think rotation mechanism is just fine. Helps their awful turret traverse too

 



Anzhelia #18 Posted May 14 2022 - 02:15

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View PostDraschel, on May 13 2022 - 16:22, said:

 

Problem identified.

 

Listen man, not to sound pretentious and snide, but people who know what they are doing are going to read this, and immediately see what the problem is. Not me, but many people. 

Bouncing may very well be a gun handling issue. And as it stands, what you have described, probably is the gun handling is just off. Get a 4 skill crew. 

 

Aside from what uber pointed out... How do you suppose he does that? Though I do recommend to try to have at least BiA



Draschel #19 Posted May 14 2022 - 03:00

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View Postuberdice, on May 14 2022 - 01:22, said:

You don't need a 4 skill crew for a fresh tier 8, wth.

 

lol.

I need a 5-skill crew for a fresh tier 4.

You gots to be the best that you can be.

Stay in SH, FL, SA until you put them together.

 

View PostAnzhelia, on May 14 2022 - 02:15, said:

Aside from what uber pointed out... How do you suppose he does that? Though I do recommend to try to have at least BiA

 

B in arms, smooth ride/snapshot, rations and not fire extinguisher, ventilation, choice of aiming class/rotation mechanism. 

Target acquisition and predication are also important. Saving a shot for an enemy you know will turn in 2 seconds is better than bouncing off the front 2 seconds ago. Shooting at AMX50B turret is better than shooting at Super conquer or Krans turret. Shooting at someone sideways and motionless, is better than criss crossing and hauling booky @ 45km/hr

If the person can pay for it, APCR is a substantial gun handling buff that many overlook just for penetration. The APCR flight path and velocity are big deals. Further an issue seen, because many players fight with TD 500m away. 

Aiming in, versus snap shotting. T-28 proto may have decent gun handling for TD, but the others, yikes. T30  110E4  Hellcat  T78  Jackson are not like LIS or T44100 or LT432. The dispersion values are way off irrelevant of overall accuracy. 

 

 



Anzhelia #20 Posted May 14 2022 - 03:31

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View PostDraschel, on May 13 2022 - 18:00, said:

 

lol.

I need a 5-skill crew for a fresh tier 4.

You gots to be the best that you can be.

Stay in SH, FL, SA until you put them together.

 

 

B in arms, smooth ride/snapshot, rations and not fire extinguisher, ventilation, choice of aiming class/rotation mechanism. 

Target acquisition and predication are also important. Saving a shot for an enemy you know will turn in 2 seconds is better than bouncing off the front 2 seconds ago. Shooting at AMX50B turret is better than shooting at Super conquer or Krans turret. Shooting at someone sideways and motionless, is better than criss crossing and hauling booky @ 45km/hr

If the person can pay for it, APCR is a substantial gun handling buff that many overlook just for penetration. The APCR flight path and velocity are big deals. Further an issue seen, because many players fight with TD 500m away. 

Aiming in, versus snap shotting. T-28 proto may have decent gun handling for TD, but the others, yikes. T30  110E4  Hellcat  T78  Jackson are not like LIS or T44100 or LT432. The dispersion values are way off irrelevant of overall accuracy. 

 

 

 

Aka play the vehicle without the 4 skill crew until you get it there?

 

Also, I know crew skills are a luxury for good players with battles under their belt and don't take this the wrong way, I don't mean to sling shade here, but he isn't up to par to be expected to have that just on the side. I'm a half decent player and I don't have many 4 skill crew myself. Most are 2-3 skill.






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