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[ S T ] Lion tank enters the super test!

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KRZYBooP #1 Posted Aug 11 2022 - 21:48

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Howdy Boom Jockeys!

Spoiler
 

The Lion, an Italian Tier X medium tank, will be coming to the Supertest soon.

This vehicle will feature a 105 mm gun with a 4-shell magazine. The shell reload times are 13/10/8/21 s, and the reload time between shots is 5 s. The penetration is 258 mm for the main armor-piercing shell and 323 mm for the special APCR shell. Accuracy is 0.4 and aiming time is 2.7 s.

The thickness of the armor plates in the frontal projection of the turret reaches 180 mm and 70 mm in the hull area. The vehicle's durability is 1800 HP. The top speed is 60 km/h, while the power-to-weight ratio is 19.3 h.p./t.

The Lion is an Italian Tier X medium tank. Looking at the vehicle, you might notice that it resembles its researchable counterpart, the Progetto 65. However, a closer examination of the vehicle's characteristics reveals that, whereas it's more efficient to fire only the first shell in the magazine of the Progetto 65, when playing in the Lion, it's best to fire up to the penultimate shell, due to the reload times of 13/10/8/21 s. To get the maximum damage per minute, you will need to fire the first two shells, but hold off on firing the third shell until the magazine reloads. You should avoid firing the last shell, as this will cause the vehicle to be idle for 21 seconds. Instead, try to restrain yourself and count your shells. The reload time between shots inside the magazine is 5 seconds, which will help you keep your cool.

This vehicle's main role is to support allies.



BianHong #2 Posted Aug 11 2022 - 21:50

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Hopefully, an alternate medium tank line to the Progetto; not a clan wars reward tank.

churchill50 #3 Posted Aug 11 2022 - 22:06

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First off, I love the model!

 

I don't get the comparison to the Progetto 65. The gameplay is somewhat similar, but as far as looks go they're completely different. The Lion looks close to a Standard B, Leopard PTA, or Leopard I.

 

I kind of like the dynamic of the reload times. The first three shells give you pretty much a reverse autoreloader. But the 4th shell limits your early game flexibility since it adds so much to the reload. It's an interesting way to balance it I think.

Most of the rest of the tank looks great. However... that gun performance. 0.4 accuracy, 3 second aim time, and 0.2/0.2/0.16 dispersion values (from The Armored Patrol) are all atrocious. Gun handling like that kind of limits the tank in a lot of ways. It will have issues playing at range, which is where it would otherwise be playing given the paper armor. But the gun will also be derpy and unreliable at close range. In my opinion, the gun performance needs some serious buffs.

 

This is an old point, but I also don't get the point of giving Italian tanks good HE. They'll never use it since it takes 40+ seconds to reload the clip, and Intuition doesn't work well on autoreloaders.

 

The Lion could definitely be interesting with better gun performance. As is... it might be annoying to play.

 

It's also likely to be a Ranked reward from what I've heard, but I might be wrong. Most likely won't be a CW reward tank because it's kind of redundant with the Carro (plus it's been 2+ years since WG has introduced a CW reward tank).



Kharah #4 Posted Aug 11 2022 - 22:10

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Ah yes, the Italian tank with the English name that (according to the writing going along with this post) bears no resemblance at all to a German tier 10 medium currently present in the game.

 

It's just a bad Leopard 1. There is no real reason to play this over a Leopard 1 in basically any situation.



grego34 #5 Posted Aug 11 2022 - 22:52

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If it's for the random player then let us know but if it is for clan rewards  or something random players can't get then maybe let us know when you post  

_BobaFett #6 Posted Aug 11 2022 - 22:53

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I want this tank, but I neither have the bonds required nor the willpower to suffer through ranked to get it.

Looks really cool.

grego34 #7 Posted Aug 11 2022 - 23:00

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View Post_BobaFett, on Aug 11 2022 - 16:53, said:

I want this tank, but I neither have the bonds required nor the willpower to suffer through ranked to get it.

Looks really cool.

I hear ya, I have over 67k in bond's but I hate how rank is setup and it needs a lot more work to make it more efficient for the players.   



ZYKLOP_ #8 Posted Aug 11 2022 - 23:58

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"This should’ve been the tech tree Tier X medium. Not with these oddball reload times, but this hull should’ve been used. What with it actually being a real tank. Plus, given that the Prototipo Standard B is Leopard prototype and this is an Italian copy of the Leopard, it would’ve made for an imminently sensible progression.
Why are they translating its name to Lion instead of using a proper Italian name? This is the Leone, a tank that actually existed, so don’t change its name."

 

From yesterdays post.

 

It looks like the Leopard for obvious reasons.

 

https://tanks-encycl...ain-battle-tank

 

 



martingalindo #9 Posted Aug 12 2022 - 05:48

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View PostKharah, on Aug 11 2022 - 18:10, said:

It's just a bad Leopard 1. There is no real reason to play this over a Leopard 1 in basically any situation.

Agree.

 

WG:
Buff accuracy, aiming time and intra clip.
Nerf gun dispersion on the move and reload.

Make it a little worst leo for sniping but not terrible for it



SpectreHD #10 Posted Aug 12 2022 - 13:47

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View PostBianHong, on Aug 12 2022 - 04:50, said:

Hopefully, an alternate medium tank line to the Progetto; not a clan wars reward tank.


It most likely will be some reward tank since they did not mention other tanks that could potentially be in the line.



Lord_Magus #11 Posted Aug 13 2022 - 04:50

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View Postchurchill50, on Aug 11 2022 - 22:06, said:

First off, I love the model!

 

I don't get the comparison to the Progetto 65. The gameplay is somewhat similar, but as far as looks go they're completely different. The Lion looks close to a Standard B, Leopard PTA, or Leopard I.

 

The Leone is a license-built Leopard 1A3. It looks like a Leopard because it is a Leopard.

 

At any rate it's incredibly ridiculous that Wargaming is translating its name to English instead of keeping it in Italian. What possible reason could they have for doing this? Is WG also going to rename the Bisonte to Bison, the Rinoceronte to Rhinoceros, Vipera to Viper and Minotauro to Minotaur?

 

Especially since the Leone is a completely real tank that actually had that name IRL, as opposed to a paper tank that WG made up a nickname for. 



Ehrlichmann #12 Posted Aug 14 2022 - 02:05

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So where are all the "fantasy, make-believe, paper, etc..." auto-loading GERMAN TANKS?

ArcticTankHunter #13 Posted Aug 16 2022 - 01:15

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View PostEhrlichmann, on Aug 14 2022 - 02:05, said:

So where are all the "fantasy, make-believe, paper, etc..." auto-loading GERMAN TANKS?

 

It is not a fantasy tank. WG broke its rule by adding a 1970+ tank. This means WG can add AMX-32 and knock both AMX 30 down one tier. Also can now add M47M Patton to tier 9(no excuses). Yippie. I think its safe to say WG is planning to include 1970 era tanks as okay while some tanks get knocked down one tier.

 

Other 1970 tanks are Begleitpanzer 57, M60A2, Panzer 68, Vickers MK3, etc.

 

So now Leopard needs to be converted to Leopard 1A3 or 1A4 with side skirt armour that protects against HE spam.

 


Edited by ArcticTankHunter, Aug 16 2022 - 01:19.


Lord_Magus #14 Posted Aug 16 2022 - 05:21

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View PostArcticTankHunter, on Aug 16 2022 - 01:15, said:

 

It is not a fantasy tank. WG broke its rule by adding a 1970+ tank. This means WG can add AMX-32 and knock both AMX 30 down one tier. Also can now add M47M Patton to tier 9(no excuses). Yippie. I think its safe to say WG is planning to include 1970 era tanks as okay while some tanks get knocked down one tier.

 

Other 1970 tanks are Begleitpanzer 57, M60A2, Panzer 68, Vickers MK3, etc.

 

So now Leopard needs to be converted to Leopard 1A3 or 1A4 with side skirt armour that protects against HE spam.

 

 

That "rule" died 5 years ago when the M48A1 was transformed into the M48A5 in patch 9.20.1. The first M48A5 was built (converted from an M48A3) in October 1975.

 

I'd love to see all of those tanks you mentioned, and knocking the AMX 30 B down to t9 as part of a full French non-autoloading medium line.

 

To add to that I'd like to see a similar downtiering of a nerfed STB-1 into t9 and add the iconic Type 74 as the t10 Japanese medium, so that there can be 2 rather than just 1 tank in that tree with siege mode. Bringing the Type 61 down to t8 would also be quite easy since its 105mm top gun is completely fictitious. And anything to put a better medium at t8 would be appreciated since nearly all t8 non-premium mediums are in a bad place right now.

 

That said the side skirts on the Leopard 1A3 (and Leone) are rubber rather than steel, so I don't know if WG will count them as spaced armor.



SpectreHD #15 Posted Aug 16 2022 - 14:00

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View PostArcticTankHunter, on Aug 16 2022 - 08:15, said:

 

It is not a fantasy tank. WG broke its rule by adding a 1970+ tank. This means WG can add AMX-32 and knock both AMX 30 down one tier. Also can now add M47M Patton to tier 9(no excuses). Yippie. I think its safe to say WG is planning to include 1970 era tanks as okay while some tanks get knocked down one tier.

 

Other 1970 tanks are Begleitpanzer 57, M60A2, Panzer 68, Vickers MK3, etc.

 

So now Leopard needs to be converted to Leopard 1A3 or 1A4 with side skirt armour that protects against HE spam.

 



Yes please to the M60A2. Even the MBT-70.

That said, WG has repeatedly said era is no longer a deciding factor as a limitation to what tanks get added. Now it is technology as the limitation. Things like smoothbore cannons and targetting computers. But then WG did add a tank with a smoothbore gun but they made up a fantasy rifled version of said gun. I cannot remember which tank it is now however. With some of the gun handling in the game, some tanks might as well have targetting computers.

So yeah, there really is no limitation as to what can be added because WG can just make up stats.



Avalon304 #16 Posted Aug 17 2022 - 07:13

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View PostArcticTankHunter, on Aug 15 2022 - 17:15, said:

 

The year limit was dropped a long long time ago. WG has been operating by a technology limit for almost a decade now.

 

Tanks with smoothbores or composite armor or advanced fire control systems are off limits.



Lord_Magus #17 Posted Aug 17 2022 - 09:18

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View PostSpectreHD, on Aug 16 2022 - 14:00, said:

That said, WG has repeatedly said era is no longer a deciding factor as a limitation to what tanks get added. Now it is technology as the limitation. Things like smoothbore cannons and targetting computers. But then WG did add a tank with a smoothbore gun but they made up a fantasy rifled version of said gun. I cannot remember which tank it is now however.

 

The Chieftain/T95 has the "90 mm Gun T208 (rifled)" which IRL was a smoothbore gun. That fake "rifled" version is also available on the M-II-Y, M-III-Y and M-VI-Y.

 

The 122 TM is another tank that they did this with. They didn't put "rifled" in the gun's name, but they did take a gun that's smoothbore IRL and put rifling on its visual modeling.

 

View PostAvalon304, on Aug 17 2022 - 07:13, said:

 

The year limit was dropped a long long time ago. WG has been operating by a technology limit for almost a decade now.

 

Tanks with smoothbores or composite armor or advanced fire control systems are off limits.

 

At least until WG drops that rule too.

 

With smoothbores they might as well drop it. After all, a shell's average penetration is simply whatever WG says it is so it's not like smoothbores would be "too strong." They'd be exactly as strong as the devs choose for them to be just like every other gun. And the K-91 and Leopard 1 already fire APCR with shell velocity better than what many early smoothbores achieved so it's not like that'd be broken.

 

Composite armor is the only thing I see a reason to still exclude. The game engine isn't built to deal with armor that has a different "thickness" depending on whether you're shooting it with HEAT or a kinetic round. And not being a programmer I have no idea how difficult it would be to implement such a feature. (Though I suppose if they wanted, WG could just give an arbitrary thickness instead of worrying about the real-life traits of composite armor.)


Edited by Lord_Magus, Aug 17 2022 - 09:27.


SpectreHD #18 Posted Aug 17 2022 - 13:51

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View PostLord_Magus, on Aug 17 2022 - 16:18, said:

 

The Chieftain/T95 has the "90 mm Gun T208 (rifled)" which IRL was a smoothbore gun. That fake "rifled" version is also available on the M-II-Y, M-III-Y and M-VI-Y.

 

The 122 TM is another tank that they did this with. They didn't put "rifled" in the gun's name, but they did take a gun that's smoothbore IRL and put rifling on its visual modeling.

 

 

At least until WG drops that rule too.

 

With smoothbores they might as well drop it. After all, a shell's average penetration is simply whatever WG says it is so it's not like smoothbores would be "too strong." They'd be exactly as strong as the devs choose for them to be just like every other gun. And the K-91 and Leopard 1 already fire APCR with shell velocity better than what many early smoothbores achieved so it's not like that'd be broken.

 

Composite armor is the only thing I see a reason to still exclude. The game engine isn't built to deal with armor that has a different "thickness" depending on whether you're shooting it with HEAT or a kinetic round. And not being a programmer I have no idea how difficult it would be to implement such a feature. (Though I suppose if they wanted, WG could just give an arbitrary thickness instead of worrying about the real-life traits of composite armor.)

 

Cool thanks for naming the tanks. And yeah I agree. Even technologically wise, it should not be a limit because WG already has a method to deal with smoothbore guns,

Advanced targetting computers is quite irrelevant as a limitation. The game already calculates for long range targets. The gun handling of tanks at the top tier might as well have targetting computers too. So kind of irrelevant to limit vehicles because of advanced FCS. Heck, just the way the aiming system works gives tanks automatic gun stabilisation.

Composite armour? Yeah, WG can just give some arbitrary number or like the smoothbore guns, just say a tank had a variant with traditional armour.



E_Rommel_Ar #19 Posted Aug 25 2022 - 07:32

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View PostKharah, on Aug 11 2022 - 17:10, said:

Ah yes, the Italian tank with the English name that (according to the writing going along with this post) bears no resemblance at all to a German tier 10 medium currently present in the game.

 

It's just a bad Leopard 1. There is no real reason to play this over a Leopard 1 in basically any situation.

i understand why you say that.

 

But, it has no resemblance with Leo. 0,4 dispersion????

 

Leo is medium best sniper....



valkius #20 Posted Sep 07 2022 - 19:02

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I'll give credit to WG and admit that I'm plesantly surprised to see a tank based on an actual prototype (leone) instead of yet another fake vehicle.

It could very much be the next "Assembly Shop" candidate rather than a ranked battles/CW reward.

 

I'm all about having tanks balanced around strengths and weakness, but aside from its turret armor, the Lion currently offers nothing but drawbacks over the Progetto 65 and Leopard 1.

Even worst, it's closer to the P.44 Pantera in terms of stats (armor & mobility), but with a bad gun to boot.

- Slower overall.

- Same paper armor (except turret front), yet have even less HP (-50 leo, -100 prog)

- Horrendous gun specs (aim time, dispersion, handling)

- Less penetration on its regular shells (-20 leo, -10 prog)

 

Personally, I could live with the slower speed, lower hp and penetration, but the gun need to be seriously boosted.

Dispersion closer to 0.33-0.35 while keeping the 21s first shell gimmick would be a good starting point to make this vehicle viable, otherwise, it's a hard pass, just like the 780.

 


Edited by valkius, Sep 07 2022 - 20:46.






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