Jump to content


* * * * * 1 votes

Give us the HE guns back on the Chinese heavies!

Chinese Heavy tanks Discussion Derp Guns BZ-75 BZ-176 Proposal

  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

B_E_N_____ #1 Posted Jan 17 2023 - 00:01

    Private

  • -Players-
  • 1070 battles
  • 7
  • Member since:
    02-27-2016

I understand that WoT removed the HE guns from the tech tree Chinese heavy tanks because the BZ176's performance, but I argue that it's not that the derp guns themselves are OP, it's just that they gave the bz176 the same penetration values as the tier 10 was supposed to have on it's premium HE round, while also only having 200 less damage than the tier 10 HE premium round. I mean the tech tree tier 9 HE gun was leaked and it's premium round only had 750alpha on the premium HE and lower pen than the bz176, so I'm upset that they just removed the guns all together rather than test them and tweak thier penetration values.

 

As is the BZ-75 is just a worse 705A that can get better Horsepower a couple times through the match, but has the trade off of weaker armor and a whole row of weak spots along the top that prevents it from playing hulldown effectively (a drawback that would have been significant for the tank when using the derp gun as it had a very slow aim time and large dispersion values, allowing counterplay against the BZ)

 

Does anyone else agree that the Derp guns should be added back onto the tanks (a common test to test and possibly tweak some values should be an obvious too), or would you rather argue that the BZ-75 should just stay a worse 705A unless you're playing on a map that includes a large hill?



KiltedBlackhorse #2 Posted Jan 17 2023 - 00:38

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 21 battles
  • 554
  • Member since:
    02-04-2022

Let's not ...

 

The new Chinese Hvy line is all fantasiewaffe; an abortive mess.



B_E_N_____ #3 Posted Jan 17 2023 - 01:46

    Private

  • -Players-
  • 1070 battles
  • 7
  • Member since:
    02-27-2016

View PostKiltedBlackhorse, on Jan 17 2023 - 00:38, said:

Let's not ...

 

The new Chinese Hvy line is all fantasiewaffe; an abortive mess.

 

I don't see the issue with some unique tanks. World of tanks is an arcade game, if I wanted realism I'd play warthunder

 



Avalon304 #4 Posted Jan 21 2023 - 23:14

    Major

  • Players
  • 29387 battles
  • 13,686
  • [SNPAI] SNPAI
  • Member since:
    09-04-2012
Yea they were all very clearly balanced for the big HE guns... and they would be way more fun with them, because theyre all hot garbage without them.

Tahllol #5 Posted Jan 22 2023 - 00:04

    Captain

  • Players
  • 23175 battles
  • 1,258
  • [-TRN-] -TRN-
  • Member since:
    01-31-2016
The problem is with the HE nerf they are going to stay junk. They need to reverse the HE nerf since it was all about protecting the Chieftain and 279e. 

Avalon304 #6 Posted Jan 22 2023 - 02:25

    Major

  • Players
  • 29387 battles
  • 13,686
  • [SNPAI] SNPAI
  • Member since:
    09-04-2012
The  HE nerf has nothing to do with it. Since clearly the BZ-176 is doing just fine.

SpectreHD #7 Posted Jan 22 2023 - 17:24

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 17447 battles
  • 17,803
  • [TT] TT
  • Member since:
    07-12-2010

View PostAvalon304, on Jan 22 2023 - 09:25, said:

The  HE nerf has nothing to do with it. Since clearly the BZ-176 is doing just fine.

 

Pretty sure any tank shooting prem HE/HESH is fine. Not surprising since premium ammo is objectively better than normal ammo.

 

Normal HE on the other hand is bad. But in terms of the Chinese tanks, if their big guns (should they ever come) are balanced like the BZ-176's, of course they will be fine since there is no normal ammo HE and everyone must fire code "2, 2" HE.


Edited by SpectreHD, Jan 22 2023 - 17:25.


Darkwolf3802 #8 Posted Jan 23 2023 - 18:31

    Corporal

  • -Players-
  • 6125 battles
  • 17
  • [PANIC] PANIC
  • Member since:
    02-20-2021
The problem is that WG has a fetish for full down hoovies and auto loaders. Everyone is asking for less of them and more of a balance but WG seems to think otherwise.

Avalon304 #9 Posted Jan 25 2023 - 12:09

    Major

  • Players
  • 29387 battles
  • 13,686
  • [SNPAI] SNPAI
  • Member since:
    09-04-2012

View PostDarkwolf3802, on Jan 23 2023 - 09:31, said:

The problem is that WG has a fetish for full down hoovies and auto loaders. Everyone is asking for less of them and more of a balance but WG seems to think otherwise.

 

None of the new Chinese heavies could qualify as 'hull down' heavies. They dont have the armor for it.

 

 

View PostSpectreHD, on Jan 22 2023 - 08:24, said:

 

Pretty sure any tank shooting prem HE/HESH is fine. Not surprising since premium ammo is objectively better than normal ammo.

 

Normal HE on the other hand is bad. But in terms of the Chinese tanks, if their big guns (should they ever come) are balanced like the BZ-176's, of course they will be fine since there is no normal ammo HE and everyone must fire code "2, 2" HE.

 

Yes but if you were spamming normal HE you were doing something wrong in the first place.

 

And even then it still isnt bad now. Its actually got utility now, rather than just being an easy mode way for scrubs to get damage. You actually have to think about when to use it rather than just picking up a big gun and tapping 3, 3 to load HE.


Edited by Avalon304, Jan 25 2023 - 12:11.


RoadMarch #10 Posted Jan 25 2023 - 19:38

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 43825 battles
  • 62
  • [PYRMD] PYRMD
  • Member since:
    11-15-2014

They'll never let anything use HE derping properly again. HE blows up in a ball with concussion going in all directions, so if you hit a tank in the gun mantle then it should apply the same pressure to the top of the hull directly blow the point of impact and knock a hole there where the armor is probably about 40mm or so and won't make a hole in the gun mantle where it's probably thicker than the frontal armor of the turret. HOWEVER all the whiners got Wargaming to turn the HE charges into shaped rounds that only blow up straight ahead. Hence the nerf to both artillery and all the derp rounds.  

 

Let's review: 1. HE is nerfed and ineffective unless you can pen using your premium shells... 2. Derp guns are ineffective as they work on the battlefield because Wargaming has determined that HE is now a shaped charge 3. Arty is ineffective as it actually works on the battlefield...  4. this is an arcade and you have to hit every tank 4 or 5 times to kill it... 5. RNG takes your dispersion and rolls the dice to actually hit where you aim (in my case that's about 2/3 of  6 rounds miss where I'm aiming (sometimes the bullet goes 6ft off the mark in any given direction) and sometimes it occasionally actually hits where I aim)

 

conclusion :  only 7 to 15K tankers are on at any given time where the game used to have 60 to 70K on at any given time   


Edited by RoadMarch, Jan 25 2023 - 19:43.


KiltedBlackhorse #11 Posted Jan 25 2023 - 19:47

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 21 battles
  • 554
  • Member since:
    02-04-2022
m - a - n - t - l - e - t

Avalon304 #12 Posted Jan 26 2023 - 14:44

    Major

  • Players
  • 29387 battles
  • 13,686
  • [SNPAI] SNPAI
  • Member since:
    09-04-2012

View PostRoadMarch, on Jan 25 2023 - 10:38, said:

Let's review: 1. HE is nerfed and ineffective unless you can pen using your premium shells... 2. Derp guns are ineffective as they work on the battlefield because Wargaming has determined that HE is now a shaped charge 3. Arty is ineffective as it actually works on the battlefield...  4. this is an arcade and you have to hit every tank 4 or 5 times to kill it... 5. RNG takes your dispersion and rolls the dice to actually hit where you aim (in my case that's about 2/3 of  6 rounds miss where I'm aiming (sometimes the bullet goes 6ft off the mark in any given direction) and sometimes it occasionally actually hits where I aim)

 

conclusion :  only 7 to 15K tankers are on at any given time where the game used to have 60 to 70K on at any given time   

 

1. Incorrect.

2. Incorrect.

3. Incorrect.

4. The first correct thing youve said.

5. The second correct thing youve said.

 

Funny, youre correct about as often as you hit shots in game. Huh, maybe its not actually RNG thats your problem...

 

And Ive been here 10 years 60-70k was a pip dream that we hit occasionally during huge events. Most normal days were 40-50k and that was 10 years ago.... so like most games experience player loss after a decade plus. Nothing new there. But and this is really really important, peak concurrent players isnt really the number that matters, its the number of unique users that play in a given period (day, week, etc).






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users