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Type 5 15cm Gun


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MrSpleen #1 Posted Jan 21 2023 - 23:48

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Why is it the Type 5's 15cm gun has less penetration with standard HE than a KV2 and the gold rounds have less pen than the BZ176?
Surely at tier 10 the pen on this gun should be a hell of a lot better than a tier 5 let alone a tier 8, plus it would be nice to have an option of which gun to use as there are 2 available and is one of the few tier 10's with 2 supposably tier 10 guns.

Draschel #2 Posted Jan 22 2023 - 01:12

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are you saying that Type 5 does not have the option to use 2 guns?

MrSpleen #3 Posted Jan 22 2023 - 03:02

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View PostDraschel, on Jan 22 2023 - 00:12, said:

are you saying that Type 5 does not have the option to use 2 guns?

Effectively it doesn't if you want to do any damage.



Draschel #4 Posted Jan 22 2023 - 09:49

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okay, if you want to effectively deal damage with a Type 5, chances are you picked the wrong tank. But thats outside the question.

Both guns work, both guns have their caveats. You need first premium account, to disable malinovka and prokhorovka. Turn off assault/encounter too.

Don't play the tank if you want serious scores in it until you grind out its true performance from field mods and 2 bonus % equipment slots. (or bond/bounty/exp) These options are available pre-random, if you are patient. Onslaught/Arcade/Advance

 

With the 149mm boat gun you really only want to spend time facing down lower tiers or glass cannons. Don't use HESH at longer ranges to which aimed fire is difficult, because even if you -WOULD- pen chances are your shot lands outside of where your aiming or you hit a surface you didn't want to -> AP is better for it. 680 is better when 900 isn't guaranteed. Because you really don't want to have a long range shot on light armor targets turn into 250 damage splash because you end up hitting tracks. Use AP. When you are closer ranges, against low tiers, ambush glass cannons - then intuition for the 900 HESH pen. Remember to do your best to favorably trade.

 

With the 140mm gun, I really wish they buffed the pen to 296 like AMX54, and velocity to 950 but you can only cry about it instead. 290 isn't too horrific. And for the alpha 0.38 base isn't horrible either. Trade favorably. 

 

Getting good scores with Type 5 is more about position rather than the guns. You need to anticipate where the enemy goes. And as early as possible, you go there. This minimizes your driving. You need to predict situations which has you fighting tier 8s not tier 10. Bad for the team, yes. But good for scores. You need to also put yourself in as many situations possible, where you control the fight in 1vs1, in slow battles, not being crapped on by arta. Again, position is key moreso than gun chosen. Getting 3k+ damage games aren't impossible in Type, many average it. They aren't averaging it, because they ''spam'' premium rounds. They average it because they put their tank in position to do so. 

 

 



MrSpleen #5 Posted Jan 22 2023 - 14:41

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View PostDraschel, on Jan 22 2023 - 08:49, said:

okay, if you want to effectively deal damage with a Type 5, chances are you picked the wrong tank. But thats outside the question.

Both guns work, both guns have their caveats. You need first premium account, to disable malinovka and prokhorovka. Turn off assault/encounter too.

Don't play the tank if you want serious scores in it until you grind out its true performance from field mods and 2 bonus % equipment slots. (or bond/bounty/exp) These options are available pre-random, if you are patient. Onslaught/Arcade/Advance

 

With the 149mm boat gun you really only want to spend time facing down lower tiers or glass cannons. Don't use HESH at longer ranges to which aimed fire is difficult, because even if you -WOULD- pen chances are your shot lands outside of where your aiming or you hit a surface you didn't want to -> AP is better for it. 680 is better when 900 isn't guaranteed. Because you really don't want to have a long range shot on light armor targets turn into 250 damage splash because you end up hitting tracks. Use AP. When you are closer ranges, against low tiers, ambush glass cannons - then intuition for the 900 HESH pen. Remember to do your best to favorably trade.

 

With the 140mm gun, I really wish they buffed the pen to 296 like AMX54, and velocity to 950 but you can only cry about it instead. 290 isn't too horrific. And for the alpha 0.38 base isn't horrible either. Trade favorably. 

 

Getting good scores with Type 5 is more about position rather than the guns. You need to anticipate where the enemy goes. And as early as possible, you go there. This minimizes your driving. You need to predict situations which has you fighting tier 8s not tier 10. Bad for the team, yes. But good for scores. You need to also put yourself in as many situations possible, where you control the fight in 1vs1, in slow battles, not being crapped on by arta. Again, position is key moreso than gun chosen. Getting 3k+ damage games aren't impossible in Type, many average it. They aren't averaging it, because they ''spam'' premium rounds. They average it because they put their tank in position to do so. 

 

 



I know how to play a type 5 and have done upto just over 5k damage in a battle in it, I also know how to position the tank with 46k battles the issue is not how to use the tank or the guns, the issue is if you want to do damage you have to use the 14cm gun not the 15cm, all guns bounce shots and aiming at weak spots helps reduce this but the 15cm gun is just pathetic for a tier 10 gun with regular HE doing 75 pen, gold HE doing 192 pen and AP doing 252 pen, by comparison the KV2 standard HE shell on the 152mm gun does 86 pen and the BZ176 gold HE pen does 225 pen, also the Type 5 doesn't use HESH.

There are alot of lower tiered tanks with higher HE pen than the type 5 and I would consider the Type 5's 15cm gun to be more like a tier 7 gun, alternatively if they want to keep a tier 10 gun doing such little pen with HE then the BZ176 needs it's pen lowering to around 150mm pen.


Edited by MrSpleen, Jan 22 2023 - 14:51.


Draschel #6 Posted Jan 22 2023 - 23:42

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Okay.

Both guns work. As said previously. The consistency will be massively different though.

140mm small gun choice will be more consistent. But wont score ridiculous as much. Say you benchmark to increase your DPG to 2,500. 140mm will do that more often, wherever its at (tier X only / tiers 8-10)

149mm naval gun choice will be more brazen, but will have more high scoring games. More low scoring games. It would be more difficult to maintain 2,500 DPG. Wherever its at (tier X only / tiers 8-10)

Thats your choice. Your mean and range of stats shouldn't change all too much, but the ''seismograph'' reading of battles over time will look very different.

 

This has to do with 140mm scoring consistently, no matter where its placed, like 2400,2600,2300,2700,2500

It also has to do with 149mm scoring more wide margined, where its placed; like 2000,3000,1750,3250,2500

 

Make the choice you want. 149mm wrecks alot of tier 8 and more tier 8 are vulnerable to it, even heavy tanks which end up playing close ranged to Types. But tier 10 tanks vulnerable to 149mm typically play far far far away from Type and are hidden, not really falling victim to it too often. This means it does really well and overscores tier 8, while struggles and nets more splash damage hits tier 10. 140mm is consistent, and hits tier 8 and 10 alike. Its a constant. SirFochs talks about this, when running the Oho years ago, the consistent 105mm VS the derper 149. Skill4ltu talks about the same thing, using the guns too, pretty much over the entire line.

General consensus, for playing better over time the 140mm is better. Naturally. But for those replay breakthrough games and funny moments, the 149mm is more fun.  

 

Do you know how to use it? I don't think you do, to be honest. Doing 5k damage in it means about as much as a broken clock right with the time, twice a day. Averages are what matters. From what i am reading, sounds as if you struggle. Or is your post just to whine over how bad Type 5  149mm is? Well, most would agree, its bad. So use the 140mm for consistency. But it being bad should have no bearing on performance. People play for performance in bad tanks all the time. So you are here to gripe? Yes, I agree, Type 5 needs buffs too. And.....?



Draschel #7 Posted Jan 22 2023 - 23:46

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If you want help, consult skill4ltu index page. He has many examples. Moreso, youtube site has plenty older matches which still apply today, like ''line grinds''

You can also look at sirfochs content on these tanks years ago, or Dez Games has a particular great clip featured from Stan playing Type 5. 

There are examples using both guns. Dealing damage using both guns. 



MrSpleen #8 Posted Jan 23 2023 - 02:04

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As I said everyone has there own opinion and I play the Type 5 regularly and do fairly well in it, I don't post on forums very often like you and tend to only bring up points that seem relevant like the disparity between guns as I mentioned above!


Quite frankly I do not give a monkeys about your opinion with the 2074 battles you've played (your top heavy tank being a KV2) and the fact you can read old stats, forum posts and watch youtube, if you've played more battles post with your main account not some forum troll!

The HE shells changed a while ago and the old information about the 15cm gun (not 149mm) is outdated.


What I am saying is the 15cm gun should be better and it would be nice to have the option to use it rather than having to use the 14cm gun, most of the stats about the 15cm gun are old stats as the type 5 is not played much anymore and the 15cm is almost never used once the 14cm gun is unlocked.


As for your opinion that everyone should average 3k damage with it only the top 6 players in the type 5 are averaging more than 3k damage and that's not specifying which gun is being used.


Plus 50% of matches in type 5 are tier 10 only so you should always assume you're fighting tier 10's.

Hell my stats are also not accurate as I got the Type 5 before the HE changes when the 15cm gun was descent.

Frankly HE penetration needs looking at across all guns especially derp guns since the change and the release of the BZ176 makes this issue glaringly obvious.


Edited by MrSpleen, Jan 23 2023 - 02:17.


Draschel #9 Posted Jan 23 2023 - 02:15

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Thats why i didn't say, use my opinions. I said use the opinions of sirfoch, use the opinions of skill4ltu, use the opinions of stanilov or Dez which play like 3x better than you, bot.

If you dont want to read, why are you here? To hear yourself gripe? To complain? To complain why you average tier 7 damage in a tier 10? Like seriously. Be a bot in game not here



Draschel #10 Posted Jan 23 2023 - 02:15

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Type 5 should be averaging 3k damage. You don't, because potato-ness. Who's fault is that?

MrSpleen #11 Posted Jan 23 2023 - 02:20

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View PostDraschel, on Jan 23 2023 - 01:15, said:

Type 5 should be averaging 3k damage. You don't, because potato-ness. Who's fault is that?

And you don't play it as your highest tier is tier 6 so until you have played it stop listening to outdated information noob.



Draschel #12 Posted Jan 23 2023 - 02:36

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Thats why i said, Skill4ltu plays it. Fochs, at one point in time, played it. Stan, plays it. Dez, plays it. So i have no reason to say, do what draschel does. Do what draschel says, to which you are pointed to people who excel at these sorts of things and recommendations for success exist.

Are you a bot? And can't read/discern whats important and whats not?

Holy bananas. Some people.

 

 



Draschel #13 Posted Jan 23 2023 - 02:38

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So your response is, not that you perform poorly in the tank and want some information to make your performance better

 

Your response is to pick fights with people who respond, who give you means and info to get better? 

 

Its a real question. Can you or can you not discern information. Why are you here? To cry? Or get better 



MrSpleen #14 Posted Jan 23 2023 - 02:40

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noobs with opinions lol

Draschel #15 Posted Jan 23 2023 - 02:42

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ahem..

https://www.tomato.g...k-stats?time=30

 

So you are dealing 300 less than the AVG expecteds.

And instead of looking to better yourself by gathering some information as what you maybe doing incorecctly

Your goals are to start lashing out on others instead? What kind of reasoning is this. It explains alot about you.

 

so what happens if a physical, in your face, 10K PR player with Type 5 3-MoE came in here and called you a bot, do this, to be better - and play better?

You would start attacking him? Thats your strategy here? 

 

You came here to cry. Not to get better. But to cry. 



MrSpleen #16 Posted Jan 23 2023 - 02:44

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Whatever noob

Draschel #17 Posted Jan 23 2023 - 02:45

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View PostDraschel, on Jan 23 2023 - 02:15, said:

I said use the opinions of sirfoch, use the opinions of skill4ltu, use the opinions of stanilov or Dez which play like 3x better than you

and take the time to make resources available to one and all to use, and get better. 

 

 

Ahem.

View PostMrSpleen, on Jan 23 2023 - 02:40, said:

noobs with opinions lol

 

Yep.  Well, at least we know why you are bad. Infact, 300 below bad. Whats that,  bad=mad? 



Draschel #18 Posted Jan 23 2023 - 02:54

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https://skill4ltu.eu...7/type-5-heavy/

https://www.youtube....l8ygsJ8ZHM&t=9s

https://www.youtube....h?v=wMgvKlZxhRI

 

I did the work for you. Consult. Get better. 

or you can continue crying here.



MrSpleen #19 Posted Jan 23 2023 - 03:00

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You are a troll and the best you can do is become insulting when I have simply attempted raise an issue as I see it.

I do not want your opinion on how I have played over the last 12 years or need it, I play for fun not to spam forums or get advice from new players and I do not want it or care about it.


And honestly who gives a [edited]!



Draschel #20 Posted Jan 23 2023 - 03:24

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An issue?

So you are here to complain.

Got it. Bots and complaining bots

I wonder, if you would be happy team mates are complaining about their type 5 bot (you) on their team

 

By the way, information to get better is information to get better. The only troll here is you.






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