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t-54 vs type 59.. same stats but vastly diff.. ?


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Candymancan #1 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 17:57

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Why is the type-59 so overpowerd compared to a t-54 ?  Has anyone else noticed this ?  Yes i know ppl say the t-59 is OP, but look at the stats between the 2 tanks they are the same, in fact they are the same tank hull...  Yet t-54's i can kill and do dmg too, type-59's my ammo bouncs in front, on side and barely does anything to the rear...  Why is that ?

It makes me think what other hidden stats have the devs put on certain tanks that arent really true..   The type 59 says it has XX and XX hull armor but it feals like its double that.. specially when compared to a t-54..

Am i right ?


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PTwr #2 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 17:58

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I do not feel anything like that, I managed to kill one in my Leopard by HE spaming in circle of death so I doubt in thier overpowerness.

jackal40 #3 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 17:59

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No, you're wrong.

Every time I run into a T-54, all I hear is ping, ping, ping and every shot he fires is crit this, bang, and we're dead.

stickjock #4 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 18:01

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Haven't noticed that myself...

1st day I had my 59, me a few Clan members went into Fishing Bay to check the map out... I was in my 59 and another guy was in is T-54...

we ended up comparing all around... 54 was way faster on acceleration... and in a fight, he took me out 9/10 times... straight on shooting, no manuvering around, I was able to only get a few shots in his front while he chewed my 59 up... go figure...

As to not damaging a 59 from the sides/rear??  Really??  Typically if I let someone get on my side or behind me, it's all over... the frontal armor is great, GREAT slope to it so yeah, I've had a lot of shots that bounce, but the sides and rear are a death trap for shots coming in usually...

Candymancan #5 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 18:02

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With my vk3002, i have fought a bunch of t-54's shooting them with normal AP ammo, on the sides or rear i can do like 100-200 dmg or so per shot.. and rarely does it ever bounce n the sides..  A type-59 tho even when im shooting at the tracks or hull on the side my AP ammo bounces or dings right off..  i always have to use HE ammo and take 3-5% of there hp off..  t-54's are way easier to kill and im so sick of type59's for me..

In fact i have like 400+ games now on my 3002 and every game with type59's in them i have yet to actually get a single shot with AP ammo using my 88mm that actually hit them..  and no im not shooting the turret.. its starting to get freaking anoying.

Hmel #6 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 18:11

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The only problem with Type 59s is overly generous match maker. On my Tier 6 & 7 tanks I very rarely see T-54s, or T-44s for that matter. Type 59s are there every other match.

Onyx #7 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 18:14

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Uh huh....

The T-54 is so vastly superior to the Type-59 that I honestly have to call this post a troll.

I mean, the T-54 is a full tier above the Type-59.

Let's look at some raw comparisons.

Front armor:  T-54?  120@60 (195 effective front armor).  Type-59?  100@60 (162 effective front armor).  Advantage T-54.

HP/Weight ratio:  T-54, pushing 20, though IIRC it's around 19.8.  Type-59? 14.89.

Turning rate? 45 v 48, advantage T-54

Turret Armor?  200 all.

Turret traverse? 51 on both.

Gun Damage/DPM/Penetration/accuracy? 320/2688/219/0.34 on the T-54, 239/1971.1/175/0,34 on the Type 59.

Overall, the T-54 is a faster, more maneuverable, better armed, armored Type-59 in every category except turret, where they're largely identical (though I believe the T-54 is still better in this regard).

The only thing that makes the T-54 a worse tank than the Type-59 in any way is its comparison to other tanks in the same tier, where the Type-59 actually isn't bad and arguably performs better than the T-44, while the Type-59 is just bad by comparison to the E-50 and M46 Patton.

_Bergs_ #8 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 18:18

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View PostCandymancan, on Oct 23 2011 - 18:02, said:

With my vk3002, i have fought a bunch of t-54's shooting them with normal AP ammo, on the sides or rear i can do like 100-200 dmg or so per shot.. and rarely does it ever bounce n the sides..  A type-59 tho even when im shooting at the tracks or hull on the side my AP ammo bounces or dings right off..  i always have to use HE ammo and take 3-5% of there hp off..  t-54's are way easier to kill and im so sick of type59's for me..

In fact i have like 400+ games now on my 3002 and every game with type59's in them i have yet to actually get a single shot with AP ammo using my 88mm that actually hit them..  and no im not shooting the turret.. its starting to get freaking anoying.

Something tells me you are just generalizing... post some proof that this is the case.

Candymancan #9 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 18:18

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I dont care what the stats say, im telling you i have killed more t-54's then type 59's in fact i need help killing type 59's..  thats why im saying the stats listed are not true, i've had ppl with 200m pen say the same thing in games

Onyx #10 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 18:24

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View PostCandymancan, on Oct 23 2011 - 18:18, said:

I dont care what the stats say, im telling you i have killed more t-54's then type 59's in fact i need help killing type 59's..  thats why im saying the stats listed are not true, i've had ppl with 200m pen say the same thing in games

And I've never had trouble killing type 59s despite being in tier 6 or 7 tanks, but have trouble against T-54s except in tier 9 tanks.  And I also know I've killed more T-54s than Type 59s, but that's largely because the T-54 has been around significantly longer than the Type 59.

The only hidden stats I know of that exist in this game are things like gun depression, maximum cone of fire (how large it gets when moving at full speed), camo value, and I've heard rumblings of hidden armor bonuses, but haven't found any evidence to actually prove this claim beyond outdated datamining results when these hidden values actually were shown to the public.

Of those hidden armor bonuses, the highest value I ever saw was 1.2 or 20%, which would put the Type-59 into T-54 range (assuming it doesn't have a similar bonus) and I know from personal experience that 175 penetration guns don't have trouble going through the front of a type 59.  Even 167 penetration guns go through commonly.

So, again, I have to call shenanigans.

geckokin338 #11 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 18:36

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As a driver of both.... well, I think it might have more to do with the encounter rate of T59s.  Lower tier by one means more often encountered by the T7/T8 players than the T54.  As far as facing them?  TigerP/H can deal with one just fine.  So long as you have the range... track em first, then bang shots into the hull all day long.  Also, it appears to me that the T59 has a greater amount of hull available to hit on side shots.  Might just be an observational discrepancy, but it seems like the ground clearance is lower compared to the T54.

As far as the OP between the two?  That is completely an observational fallacy.  Seriously, the T59 is underpowered, with an underperforming gun.  It does well at T8 compared to every other T8, but by no means is that thing CLOSE to the T54 in potential for rapeage.  The T54 routinely punches around in matches with other T9s and against experienced higher tier arty and heavies.  Who have done quite a bit to stop the suicide squads of T54 you used to see in beta.

Embiggener #12 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 18:49

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View PostCandymancan, on Oct 23 2011 - 17:57, said:

Why is the type-59 so overpowerd compared to a t-54 ?  Has anyone else noticed this ?  Yes i know ppl say the t-59 is OP, but look at the stats between the 2 tanks they are the same, in fact they are the same tank hull...  Yet t-54's i can kill and do dmg too, type-59's my ammo bouncs in front, on side and barely does anything to the rear...  Why is that ?

It makes me think what other hidden stats have the devs put on certain tanks that arent really true..   The type 59 says it has XX and XX hull armor but it feals like its double that.. specially when compared to a t-54..

Am i right ?

Um, no?

I have no idea what you're talking about.  I have no problem killing Type 59's in anything I drive, and no, their stats are not the same at all... the crappy gun and engine on the Type 59 make it vastly inferior to the T-54.

MaxMike #13 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 19:32

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No, you are very profoundly wrong, not even close.

The T-59 is not OP and it is just weird to claim it is anywhere near the tank the T-54 is.
The T-59 may look like a T-54 but it is not the T-54 is a much superior tank.

When I am out in a tier 7 and see a T-59 I get prepared and know if I play it right I can kill it, in a tier 8 tank I am confident I look for them. I see a T-54 in any tank and I worry.

I don't care what your stats tell you I am telling you the T-59 is a easy kill compared to a T-54 no question about it. I have taken several down 50%+ and killed several in a derp M4. Matter of fact I have killed more T-59s (88) in the last month than any other tank, part of that is the number of them you see but a bigger part of it is they are not hard to kill once you know how.

sweenytodd #14 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 19:42

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View PostOnyx, on Oct 23 2011 - 18:14, said:

Uh huh....

The T-54 is so vastly superior to the Type-59 that I honestly have to call this post a troll.

I mean, the T-54 is a full tier above the Type-59.

Let's look at some raw comparisons.

Front armor:  T-54?  120@60 (195 effective front armor).  Type-59?  100@60 (162 effective front armor).  Advantage T-54.

yes it is a full tier up, that means the t54 should out class it across the board.

the armor performs significantly better than your calculations (on the type59) if your calculations were correct then a long 88, or american 105 ought to frontally penetrate roughly 90% and 80% respectively.  this does not happen.  i see the angled defense coming so lets lower it to 65% and 55% to compensate for possible angled armor, you still wont see this in game.  non-homogeneous armor is possible but the "up to" values should state the max.  either we need more info about it's armor or your calculations are wrong

Worstplayer_NA #15 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 19:44

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Only thing op about it is the extremely low matchmaking value.

other than that it's a meh tier 8 medium.

TrackJax #16 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 22:27

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I will agree type 59's are overpowered for what they are...  you can shoot them in the side and pick away I'll be facing there side and the'll still kill me first. It just is overpowered no two ways about it....

Mzh3000 #17 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 22:35

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The T54 is better, but the type59 is not only 1 tier lower but also has matchmaking with it.

How is it compaired to the other tier 8 mediums??

I find it an even fight with my pershing, dependant on the player.

Flashand #18 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 22:40

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i feel this is so as well, i can take out a t54 but i cannot damage a t59 at all. i am sick of this over powered pile of #@$%!

also hate the fact that i can damage ANY tier 10 but the E100 this is bs as well

i drive a tiger p

Embiggener #19 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 22:58

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I think what some of you are not understanding is that when you have a front plate angled 60 degrees back from the vertical, it doesn't take much angling at all to make it either too thick to penetrate, angled enough that it is an automatic bounce, or both.

People should not have problems penetrating these things.  I don't and no one I play with does either, so apparently some of you are just plain doing it wrong.

MaxMike #20 Posted Oct 23 2011 - 22:59

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View PostMzh3000, on Oct 23 2011 - 22:35, said:

How is it compaired to the other tier 8 mediums??

IMO it is a typical premium not as good at tier, it is about a tier 7.5 compared to the other tier 8s. One on one in the Panther II and Pershing I eat T-59s, the T-44 is faster and with comparable drivers will usually beat a T-59.