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HULL DOWN/LOCK DOWN/ "x" FOR ARTY & TDs


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red_tide #1 Posted Oct 27 2011 - 20:22

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The "X" or hull down for arty & TD doesn't seem to do anything except limits ur turns to 45deg. Why is that??? seems kind of pointless to have it there.

I played company of heroes and the hull down feature there works awesome. Once you set the hummel & marder III to a hull down/lock hull it increases the rate of fire and accuracy significantly (It still limit you to 45deg turn/traverse). The down side is it takes a bit of time for your crew to set up or remove the hull down/lock hull. So, you better have support close by.

So why is the hull down/lock hull at WOT doesn't work like that. Seems kind of useless in the game to have it there and does nothing efficient.

Ironmonger69 #2 Posted Oct 27 2011 - 20:25

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If you move your hull, it breaks you camo bonus for being still.  When in sniper mode, panning your gun around will move your hull if it is not locked in place.  It is hull-lock, not hull-down (that is something entirely different).  It is there to keep you from unintentionally giving yourself away to the enemy, and is immenintly desirable, which is why it automatically goes into it when you enter sniper mode.  Again, has nothing to do with hull-down.

Also, the limit is to the gun traverse, not 45 degrees.  Only the Marder II has that kind of traverse, the rest are much narrower.

Jensen_Blayloc #3 Posted Oct 27 2011 - 20:30

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I was like what is this hull down thing? 13000 games and I didn't know about a magic button?

Then I read ironmongers post and everything was Ok again. I dont use the function through x. I use it with the mouse wheel.

SHISHKABOB #4 Posted Oct 27 2011 - 20:35

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also, for arty, if you lock your hull, then you will not unwittingly trash your accuracy by causing your tank to move its hull when you accidentally move your aim thing past its side-range-thingy

you know how SPGs or TDs without turrets (most of them) will automatically turn if you push your gun past its max traverse thing? When your hull moves, it reduces your accuracy/widens your aiming reticule, so locking your hull in place with X is a way to ensure that won't happen without you wanting it to

red_tide #5 Posted Oct 27 2011 - 20:36

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View PostIronmonger69, on Oct 27 2011 - 20:25, said:

If you move your hull, it breaks you camo bonus for being still.  When in sniper mode, panning your gun around will move your hull if it is not locked in place.  It is hull-luck, not hull-down (that is something entirely different).  It is there to keep you from unintentionally giving yourself away to the enemy, and is immenintly desirable, which is why it automatically goes into it when you enter sniper mode.  Again, has nothing to do with hull-down.

Also, the limit is to the gun traverse, not 45 degrees.  Only the Marder II has that kind of traverse, the rest are much narrower.


So, Thats wats its for @ WOT. so why nt add Hull down or Lock hull on some TDs and artys

Jensen_Blayloc #6 Posted Oct 27 2011 - 20:42

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View Postred_tide, on Oct 27 2011 - 20:36, said:

So, Thats wats its for @ WOT. so why nt add Hull down or Lock hull on some TDs and artys


because they are already OP?  :Smile_harp:







Oh come on, it was a joke. Calm down.

Killer30CoD #7 Posted Oct 27 2011 - 20:44

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already got your answer.....Iron beat me too it, then again anyone whos played WoT for half as long as me knows about "all" the actions.

sweenytodd #8 Posted Oct 27 2011 - 20:45

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^got beat to the answer

protip to the OP: all caps makes me come into the thread expecting a very unintelligent post. try to sound rational when posting.

Ulfnar #9 Posted Oct 27 2011 - 20:48

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Tank destroyers in this game already tend to have significantly more DPM on their guns in addition to more penetration and more accuracy than their tier mates, so adding a lockdown function similar to Terran Republic MAX armour from planetside (not sure how many people will know wtf I am talking about there) would be kind of overkill in my opinion. So yea, I don't see that function changing ever to be honest.

Ironmonger69 #10 Posted Oct 27 2011 - 21:34

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View Postred_tide, on Oct 27 2011 - 20:36, said:

So, Thats wats its for @ WOT. so why nt add Hull down or Lock hull on some TDs and artys

You can go hull down; it's about positioning your tank, not putting on a parking brake like hull lock (which I though we just discussed IS in the game...).  Get on the back side of the hill and peek over, that's what hull down is.  Some tanks are better than others for this.  Some are terrible for it as they have virtually no gun depression, like the T-28.  But it's a vital part of surviving.

Onyx #11 Posted Oct 27 2011 - 22:06

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It's also worth noting that the feature seen in Company of Heroes, for instance, actually deployed the tank.  That is, for artillery, it drops down the braces for it and puts it into its actual role as seen in real life...more or less.  Tanks like these generally didn't fire on the move, and did so with massive accuracy penalties if they attempted this.  For tanks that have no braces or markers to set up, shutting down the tank engines and focusing the entire crew on reloading the gun/etc is where a large part of that bonus would come from, something that isn't represented in this game (unless you count accuracy slowly getting better given time spent stationary)

Now, that said, hull lock and hull down are not the same thing.  Lock down isn't the same either.  These are 3 different concepts.

This is hull down (as well as various other positions)
http://upload.wikime...ank_diagram.png
Pretty much only American tanks can really do it on any map, but this is position based and requires an incline that changes angles of some form.

Hull Lock, putting on the brakes, is for specifically negating your camo penalty from movement by...not moving.  It's there specifically so you don't incur the penalty of movement and...that's about it.  Doing this, incidentally, also increases your RoF and accuracy since your CoF will always be at its lowest when you do this, so you fire as often as you can, unless you enjoy spray and pray tactics while running around on the move, in which case you're wasting ammo and still will have crap accuracy.  You can also consider this shutting off the engine, so that you don't have a smoke trail from the tailpipes or make a noise to those nearby (where the penalty would come from, really, aside from movement alone)

Lock down could best be a term such as buttoning up, which is something tanks generally did when in a combat zone and actively being fired upon.  That is, they shut all the viewports to the outside that exposed the tank (E.G. the Driver's Viewport), closed all the hatches, and had everyone sit relatively safely inside the tank itself, which could still more or less function in such a state just fine, but with reduced efficiency for the driver and commander.

red_tide #12 Posted Oct 30 2011 - 03:03

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View PostIronmonger69, on Oct 27 2011 - 21:34, said:

You can go hull down; it's about positioning your tank, not putting on a parking brake like hull lock (which I though we just discussed IS in the game...).  Get on the back side of the hill and peek over, that's what hull down is.  Some tanks are better than others for this.  Some are terrible for it as they have virtually no gun depression, like the T-28.  But it's a vital part of surviving.

the hull down your talking about applies to battle tanks and some TDs that has turret and hull like the wolverines and hellcats w/c they efficient used that tactic in WWII. the hull down or lock hull to some artys and TD are different. When artys use that defensive tactic the crew has to set up arty anchoring it to the ground making the arty or TD a good firing platform but immobile. That feature doesn't apply to all artys and TD as far as I know it applies to the hummel and the marder III w/c has open hatch but it doesn't apply the jagpanther, ferdi, jagtiger, su-85 to 152. If it will be added to the game it doesnt mean all the artys and TD will have it.

Whyan #13 Posted Oct 30 2011 - 04:43

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View Postred_tide, on Oct 30 2011 - 03:03, said:

the hull down your talking about applies to battle tanks and some TDs that has turret and hull like the wolverines and hellcats w/c they efficient used that tactic in WWII. the hull down or lock hull to some artys and TD are different. When artys use that defensive tactic the crew has to set up arty anchoring it to the ground making the arty or TD a good firing platform but immobile. That feature doesn't apply to all artys and TD as far as I know it applies to the hummel and the marder III w/c has open hatch but it doesn't apply the jagpanther, ferdi, jagtiger, su-85 to 152. If it will be added to the game it doesnt mean all the artys and TD will have it.

Hull down means firing from a position where the hull is not visible or able to to be reliably/effectively damaged. As far as I know that is the only definition for it regarding armoured warfare.

And what you mean by hull lock is probably the idea to deploy stabilizers and fire from a fixed postion right-ish? Now here is the problem: This does not apply to almost any tank or SPG in the game, and it has nothing to do whether they are open-topped or not. They are mainly used for towed SPG or AT guns, guns that don't have any sort of stable firing platform, or weapons that exert a considerable amount of recoil.  

None of the tanks besides a few like the american SPGS w/ the shovels at the rear, have any sort of deployable chassis/gun stablizing features either because the most the tanks either do not use them (or cannot use them),  and/or the platform that the gun is on already serves that role.

KiwiMark67 #14 Posted Oct 30 2011 - 12:09

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One thing not mentioned is the binocs - they give a 25% view range bonus when stationary.  On a TD you can lose sight of an enemy when you traverse with the tracks due to the turning to aim, pressing 'x' stops that from happening.
So yeah - binocs, camo & arty aiming are all affected by traversing your TD/SPG and 'locking' your tracks stops that from accidentally happening.