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Why cant i see tanks when they are shooting, moving and only 50-100 yards away..


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RobertK #41 Posted Nov 03 2011 - 04:08

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View PostCreme_Fraiche, on Nov 03 2011 - 03:41, said:

That is absolutely the stupidest explanation for disappearing tanks I've heard yet.  If that were the case, then EVERYTHING would be appearing and disappearing, not just tanks.  Why doesn't the enemy flag all the way across the map ever disappear?

Wow. Just wow.

Do you really think the game engine should be deciding when to render inanimate objects based on line of sight? That's an easy game design question, by the way, and rhetorical. The answer is "No".

Bob

Creme_Fraiche #42 Posted Nov 03 2011 - 04:39

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View PostRobertK, on Nov 03 2011 - 04:08, said:

Wow. Just wow.

Do you really think the game engine should be deciding when to render inanimate objects based on line of sight? That's an easy game design question, by the way, and rhetorical. The answer is "No".

Bob
and that's why superior games like BF3 have billions of players while WoT has what, a couple hundred?  Maybe if WoT stops being schizophrenic and finally decides to be either a sim or an arcade shooter will their player base grow.  Until then, the dozen or so players left in the US are going to have to deal with this unfinished garbage.

Fazar #43 Posted Nov 03 2011 - 04:57

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View PostCreme_Fraiche, on Nov 03 2011 - 03:43, said:

Play BF3 if you want good tank FPS.  Its tank gameplay is far superior to WoT.

Arent there battles of like 1-3 tanks in an engagement?

Agentice #44 Posted Nov 03 2011 - 05:06

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I'll just leave this here: Spotting Mechanics link

Lionshare #45 Posted Nov 03 2011 - 07:18

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It happens to me all the time. I just got out of a game with my stug III. There was a T-29 68 meters away. I fired, hit him then he just disappers. I thought he left and I was experiencing one of those warps movements but bam, I was hit and tracked. I'm looking all around and not seeing anyone. I'm thinking there's a tank way in the back or arty hitting me from a distance. Then Bam, I'm hit again and destroyed. Thats when the T-29, that I was orginally fired at just appears in the exact spot I shot him at.


As much as I love playing this game this cloaking stuff, to be honest is starting to get old. It's a huge turn off and is one of the top reasons I'm thinking of leaving.

Shadow__ #46 Posted Nov 03 2011 - 07:49

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View PostFazar, on Nov 03 2011 - 01:40, said:

Also it's not that I believe it isn't, it's that I think people who don't understand it, believe it is.  There's a reasonable explanation of how something happended, and why.

Not really. A simple ray tracing algorithm would do a much better job. I am not sure what technology they are employing but honestly, it sucks. I play with around 50-70 ping, and I had tanks be invisible at 100 meters from me with no bush around, tanks going invisible with no object in my los etc.

The best part is the tanks peeking out from behind the building, getting a shot off and appearing as they are moving back(no bush or anything). Even better if this is the last enemy tank, it's a panther (which has next to no base camo) and is doing it to your chafee(with a camo net behind a bush). I'd say this might have something to do with the spotting system refresh, but whatever it is, it's implemented very poorly. If anything, make the check of the target is visible at the same time for everyone or something.

Honestly, the spotting system is hit and miss. Sometimes you see the other person and he does not see you and sometimes he sees you and you do not. Just deal with it.

Also, in my opinion a simple algorithm where the game checks for los, e.g. whether you can see the other tank from your commander's cupola and after it evaluates  camo modifiers like bushes etc (checks if the los ray goes through etc.) would do a much better job. What this game uses, however, is miles away from such a system.
There is some rng to it(the game checks for spotting only ever so often so if you just had your check it sucks), but overall the system is very bad compared to any other game I ever played. It's still playable, but it's way too random and unpredictable.

EchelonIII #47 Posted Nov 03 2011 - 11:31

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View PostRobertK, on Nov 02 2011 - 20:36, said:

Let me fix that for you...



There. :)

Have you ever been in a real tank that is buttoned up? Try it. You might learn something. It's not as easy to see targets as you might think. :)

It is unfortunate that people want to continue to say these are bugs or unintended problems with the sighting system when instead they are a very cool part of the game.

And mea culpa on the discussion of the after-action view. I was wrong on that one. Sorry!

Bob

German tank optics could see enemy tanks at ranges of up to two kilometers

Also, if a tank crew is unable to see a tank 50 meters in front of it SHOOTING AT IT, there is something very, very wrong.

YoJoe #48 Posted Nov 03 2011 - 14:26

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just noticing the trouble of most.

but this happened to me a view times but not in point blank range. now the one hiding behind the rock thing is another thing. when ur view is blocked then he disappears, thats a proven fact. if you lose sight of him this happens. and if his crew has leveled up their stats on camo and they got the camo net as well, i think that's another factor too.

on a note, in the game TD's and scouts tend to be stealthy ^^, they were built to be so.


YoJoe

Kallor #49 Posted Nov 03 2011 - 15:08

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View PostAgentice, on Nov 03 2011 - 05:06, said:

I'll just leave this here: Spotting Mechanics link
Don't ruin the fun. I was enjoying this discussion about sight wedges and stuff.  How do people think up this stuff?

Grouchy00 #50 Posted Nov 03 2011 - 15:39

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Come on don't you just love when your watching the trees being knocked down in front of you by nothing ............:huh:  just proves Devs have a real sense of humor

B_Wilco #51 Posted Nov 03 2011 - 16:04

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aww the classic Invisa tanks. i have driven past so many its not even funny. i once ran past a T29 (I drove through the bush he was hiding in, which slowed me down when i scraped him but didnt think of it) i drove on a little bit more while i was still getting shot at by the T29 that didnt light up until the 5th shot(kill shot). or my favorite is when tanks run all the way across the open gorund in Campkinova and the light up as they reach the buildings.

Ootpek #52 Posted Nov 03 2011 - 17:22

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So you scraped a tank and "didn't notice" and then expect us to believe anything else you have "observed".

Skraeling #53 Posted Nov 03 2011 - 18:08

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Shrug ive seen t54's disappear in open field.  The most recent example then proceeded to kill my tiger.  It was redshire.  He was approaching our hill.  I had los on him the whole time.  shot him once (bounce of course) he shoots me... the dissappears and reappears only after he shot me again.

That. Is. Stupid.


vis mechanics in this game are retarded.

torrey #54 Posted Nov 03 2011 - 20:01

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View PostKiwiMark67, on Nov 03 2011 - 00:22, said:

What the hell dude!
Surely you have been playing long enough to understand that draw=defeat for both teams.
Even worse, you have a KT against a T95 - you should have been going for the win!  Why weren't you driving around the T95, keeping behind his gun and shooting his rear?  You do realise that the T95 has a top speed of 13kph, traverse of 16 degrees per second and no rotating turret don't you?  I've seen tanks lower than a KT kill a T95, I would have given it a go.
I don't know if you could have killed it within 2 minutes, but you owed it to your team to try!


The point of this was my example of a T95 disappearing from in front of me not how you feel I should have went for certain death over a draw. And because i'm pretty sure you were not in my tank with me when I broke into the open to cap their flag and the T95 showed up.On this map I was in the wide open and after he fired taking 75% of my left from a shot in the side I ran for cover as he went back into camo. I know I had module damage along with a bad track and not knowing where he was at the time until he showed with me on a high rock and him below me, any direction to circle it would have put me in line with his gun. This is the decision I made with 2 minutes left you look at draw as defeat fine I look at it as they didn't win.

Rainybeet #55 Posted Nov 03 2011 - 20:11

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I had a game yesterday in my KV-3 where an SU-85 could not have been more than 60-70 yards directly in front of me (felt like less than 50, but want to give benefit of the doubt), and I had a 100% crew, binoculars, and an elite tank.  He shot me, and I shot him, and then he disappeared, only to show up after he fired again.  He was in a bush, but not behind more than one, and there was no other cover or terrain between us.  Sorry, but TD bonus, a camo net, and a 100% crew should not have allowed him to disappear that close to me after he was already spotted, and with a full crew and visibility bonuses I should be able to see him that close anyways.

There are problems with visibility that are not explained by sight wedges or bonuses, but are just insane.  Perhaps the devs could look into making it easier to spot someone that has already been spotted and has not moved.  Technically camo does not work as well after you know where to look for it, so realistically it should be easier to spot someone that is in the same place and has already been spotted.  I know that the game is not technically "realistic" and could not be without ruining the game, but some things are just plain silly, like a tank disappearing right in front of you or being killed by a tank that is invisible right up until he shoots you only a few meters away.

Ootpek #56 Posted Nov 04 2011 - 16:14

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If a tank disappears on me I KNOW it is one of two things.

1.  He has stopped.  Stopping means his camo value has gone up and possibly his camo net has kicked in as well.

2.  The teammate that was spotting him FOR me has moved to where he can't see him anymore or is dead.  

While it is maybe not realistic to do this it is part of the game and I work with it.  

If I think Number 1 happened...I shoot where he WAS when he disappeared.  I cannot tell you how many kills I have gotten by throwing a few shells into a spot because I think someone is there.  

If I think Number 2 has happened there is not much I can do about it except wait for him to come into view of myself or another teammate to reacquire him.  

And for gods sake...if you are complaining about not being able to see your opponents, train your commander to 100% and buy him some optics or binocs.  It will do wonders for you I bet.

VirgilHilts #57 Posted Nov 04 2011 - 17:08

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One thing they should do for the "spotting system" is set it up so "that which has been seen cannot be unseen". In other words, once you see an enemy vehicle, so long as it remains in your line of sight, and does not become fully obscured by an obstacle, it should remain visible. If it was spotted by a friendly, and is no longer visible to the friendly, or the friendly dies, it should still remain visible to you so long is it remains in your line of sight, and is not completely obscured.

When you're in the field, with a friend, and your friend points something out to you, you see it, and it no longer matters whether your friend is looking at it or not. You saw it once it was pointed out to you, it does not suddenly become invisible if your friend walks off. Your buddy says, "see that 8 point buck, over there by the oak tree next to the big rock that's shaped like a VW". You look, then you see it. The buck does not suddenly disappear if your buddy walks off down the hill, where he can't see it, but the buck stays where it was.

Now, if you or the deer one move, and you lose sight of the deer due to that, then yeah, you might not see him again, even if you look and he's back in your line of sight, but not any closer than when your friend spotted him for you.

sionus #58 Posted Nov 07 2011 - 03:15

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As much as I love WoT and will continue to play it, it's endlessly frustrating to have tanks either: disappear while driving less than 50-150 yards in front of you in the middle of an open field, or, fire from behind a bush, 20 yards in front of you, and then vanish completely until they shoot again. Neither of these cases make sense to me. I understand the mechanics governing visibility in the game but they are beyond logic and/or do not seem to be operating correctly.