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T110`s Armor

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Nichts #2481 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 20:26

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on Feb 15 2012 - 19:30, said:

No word. I didn't push for it anyway, as (1) I set attainable goals, and (2) I'm not convinced T110 would have had it.

Alrighty. Thanks.

Bit of a bummer, because that extra HE/HEAT resistance would've made the T110 a nice alternative to the 50B on arty-friendly maps. Ah well... better be happy with what we (read: you) have gotten so far, right? :P

NinjaFisT #2482 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 20:29

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Sveet! I'm thinking it'll feel more like an American heavy with the wedge, instead of trying to copy the Russian pike. Now if it gets an invincible front turret like the T32, then I'm fine with it. In fact, I'd love the idea of a smaller, (hopefully) more mobile T32 as the T10, as the T32 is an all around balance of mobility, firepower, and armor. It's the closest tank of any to the middle of the OP UP seesaw, making it one of the most versatile tanks in the game.

GoldMountain #2483 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 21:49

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What caliber is the gun in the CT turret meant to be?
because if its a .50 or 20mm by the time multi-turret capabilities are enabled we could use it (There is a .50 cal gun available for the M2 Light tank)
I want to pew pew pew with mah itty bitty gun /)^3^(\
Spoiler                     


CCC_Dober #2484 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 21:57

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If it helps to erode soft cover it might come in handy indeed. The Maus on the other hand will be downright nasty, keeping your crew busy with all the HE spam LOL

GoldMountain #2485 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 22:00

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View PostCCC_Dober, on Feb 15 2012 - 21:57, said:

If it helps to erode soft cover it might come in handy indeed. The Maus on the other hand will be downright nasty, keeping your crew busy with all the HE spam LOL

Meh
75mm HE shells have a very high ricochet chance on most armor at tier 6/7/8/8/10 tanks

CCC_Dober #2486 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 22:03

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Tracks then?

GoldMountain #2487 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 22:04

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View PostCCC_Dober, on Feb 15 2012 - 22:03, said:

Tracks then?

AP would be a better bet against anything, even if its only 120mm pen tops

KilljoyCutter #2488 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 22:05

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View PostGoldMountain, on Feb 15 2012 - 21:49, said:

What caliber is the gun in the CT turret meant to be?
because if its a .50 or 20mm by the time multi-turret capabilities are enabled we could use it (There is a .50 cal gun available for the T1 Cunningham :D)
I want to pew pew pew with mah itty bitty gun /)^3^(\


It's Ma Deuce, the good old .50 heavy machine gun.  (IIRC, a .50 BMG AP round from WW2 would punch through 25mm of steel at 400 yards / 0 degrees.)

SFC_Storm #2489 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 22:11

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View PostArzoo, on Feb 14 2012 - 07:46, said:

The T30 doesn't compete directly with the IS-7; you make clear trade-offs for a gun that is better in both pub and organized gameplay.

I'm not saying the T110 needs to be worse, I'm saying it needs to be approximately as good. Some aspects of it should certainly be better than the IS-7... but if ALL of them are then... surely you can see the problem? I can easily see an argument for it kicking the IS-7's ass in terms of both firepower and mobility if it has poor armor (and anything below 240mm is pretty poor as far as I'm concerned).

But if you want all that AND 260mm effective armor then I don't know what to say to you... it's like wanting the M60 to be our tier 9 medium, kick the T-54's ass because the M60 is simply a better tank, and then complaining that it's Russian Bias that we don't get the M60. No, it's not Russian bias that we don't get the tank, it's BALANCE that we don't get the tank.

This is wrong, the T30 used to have a gun that kicked ass. And as Onyx pointed out and is 100% correct when he T30 came out it was never really OP, its intro "when a tank has its highest win ratio" was only .9% over the maus.

TheT30 as a T10 sucked, once you learned how to time its reloads, anything could hurt it...I mean t5`s could.

I loved my Beta T30 but it was always a TD with a Turret..ALways.

It also had the only gun in the T10`s that basically ywas a BL10`s DMG, that was huge since closest things were 440 DMG later 490 DMG guns. ALso it had pretty good accuracy.

Then they took that away, now its a brick that dies easy.

The T110 just lke the T30 did needs to come ou with something just as devastating just i na different way, MASSIVE DPM.

Problem is the T30 didnt need Armor because it rolled out aimed super fast and fired and did 2 120mm rounds worth of DMG.

Add the fact this thing will have to roll out and be exposed 2 times as much/3 if you miss or bounce IT NEEDS FRONTAL ARMOR, From STEM TO STERN.

Upper 255mm lower 195mm Turret front 320, mant 320+50mm plate. This way it is godlike turreted. no moe 279mm in T10 where Gold heat rounds burn right though and normal 130mm rounds have a 30% to pen.

Then make it mobile like the T34 and same speed, still way slow compared to a med esp a T9 but enough o defend by counter hulling ets.

Make sides 150mm+20mm tracks meaning 100mm Sides @36 Degrees. COmpare this to the IS7`s 100mm@60 [170] massive angles+ 20m skirt [which gets a RNG] also its 20mm [Tracks] which also get RNG....Its like having spaced Armor.
But it adds up to 190mm of side,and thats add weakest point, go jus a tad hgher and you will get even more, now if he angles 30 degrees to bait you into shoting hi sides and not shooting his nose or he is going away from you at 30 degrees its 190mm@30 and you have do add it hitting entire track or worse the upper skirt type thing thats 100mm thick also.

AT best your 30 degree IS7 is 220ish, at middle shot you do no DMG by track him, at worst you hit upper "A"frame skirt at 100mm+200+20mm track meaning the IS7 shot from side up high can be 320mm ....Thats right folks 320mm and from how many times I shot NCDOT my buddy the other night with paintball modds on I shot himn 1/7 times there.

With a KT I DMG`d him fro mthe side square aiming while he was still 6/10 times, meanig the 190mm really does work great. He angled so from the front I ould see his right plate alot flatter, probably from 342mm to 280....LOL
I hit 2/10 times.

Point is IS7 sides are beastly. I keep hearingwe dont have a tank in game now with HI DPM/Sustainable DMG which is true, its true because to do so you vcan be hot back by a 490-750 DMG gun vs your 400, Now add a nive upper and that might give it the niche it  needs.

T110 needs to be semi beastly from front [Still weakest part of Glacis on IS7 LOLS] but once its flanked 150mm Sides isnt gonna stop much except the occasional lower tier shot that would really have hurt you before.

For sustainable DMG you need to be sustainable yourself, and CW isnt like dumd PUBIES, each guy hides, they dont blindly rush following 1 at a time and they never ever switch targets like in PUBS where a guy has a tank down to 15% then he gets hitfrom hjis left, turns to hit the new tank with 85% health and then is banged.

In CW oly way o make DPM work is to trade some rounds at long range and to bounce some. 255-262 can do that, hell it can bounce 1/3rd of some gold shells, unless they aim at your lower, which in all hoest hey should be.

Common guys US tanks arent just the Hardest to play, but they the easiest to kill, you basically just dont zoom in on em and you ht em 75%.

All this needs to change....T110 needs to be a Brusier/Sniper....Just like the T32 isnt the best Armor or speed or anyoneone thing, but its solid hull Armor semi good speed etc....T110 needsto be the Frontal top 3 T10`s lol [out of 4] with sides very solid for a T8/9 but rear r sides is how you kill it, also its massive lower.

Maybe it will be a good jumper when pyhsics comes out :)

Sorry my phone blows il lfix later, just act like I am a retarded 15 yr old and read quality not grammer.

SFC_Storm #2490 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 22:29

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View PostOnyx, on Feb 14 2012 - 08:07, said:

Crappy acceleration, crappy turning, crappy aim time, massive gun dispersion on moving (crappy target acquisition) crappy accuracy, a somewhat crappy DPM for the tier, which is worse than the T34's DPM.  Long reload times (anything under 6 RPM is a long reload).

It pays for the strangely angled front armor with strong values.

Oh, I forgot to add:  Crappy cruise speed.


Yet strangely enough its the most used CW tank and arguably the best tank in game....HMM

It doesnt need fast trageting, like US does, it sits there and aims will it bounces.

CRappy accel?? ROFL for a T10? Are you kidding? Compared to T34 [which is T9 and so shitty in most ways they gave it great accel]

Crappy accuracy? Have you played the IS7? Its great, its like a T30`s Accuracy before nerfs and before Ghosts....Also is .35 is crappy the entire US line is crappy.

Lol here we go again comparing a weak armored,"Bd Tank" wo falls short in its on tier so says the DEVS and compare it to a 68 ton monster that moves faster than its T( counter part which weighs less.
And here i thew other "T34 has way better ROF"...Lol T34 shoots 246 pen 400 DMG shells, the iS7 spits 260 Pen 490 Shells.....HMMM

Of course the DPM is Lower, no on evrr wod play anything else ever in game if IS7 ha 2700 DPM.

For how much Armor it has 360 degrees around it, it should be 25 kmh. Its speed is 38 and 50 down hills, fastest in class.

Yu cant compare a paper thin T9 whos only good attributes are its Gun and its Speed and then leave out not just the IS7 fron but is crazy ass side rear even and as a whole a way way stronger turret in all directions


Lol IS7 is great, you like pubs so you like fast ROF and Armor means less, since yu play a support/semi camper, but in CW the IS7 is the fastest thing on he field, with a great Gun, and great all round protection, Arty included.


I really think you just want the T110 to be a "Super T34" where the rest of us think that would blow ass. You get the M103 which will be a super 213mm hull and a at least 267mm pen gun, but the T110 needs to break the US mold or fil lie is US T10`w-

CCC_Dober #2491 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 22:33

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View PostCmd_Storm, on Feb 15 2012 - 22:11, said:

... the T30 used to have a gun that kicked ass ...

Aye and I'm sure this video here will help people to realize what kind of potential the T30 lost over time. The video shows a random dude on the russian server, nvm his 'tactics', just look at the accuracy and consistency of the shots. Nowadays we have an aiming circle easily twice as big and fully aimed shots will go anywhere inside that circle.

Mow_Mow #2492 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 22:38

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(My old T30 video)
Shit that happened in this video would never have happened if I had the beta T30...

/shamelessadvertising

FaustianQ #2493 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 22:49

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on Feb 15 2012 - 17:12, said:

LMAO. How can I not respond to something that cute?

The general gist of it was that I was definitively informed that was the appropriate personnel whose signature was required to sign off on the work required to change T110's hull shape back to a wedge front have signed off on it and it shall be done. Beyond that, I have no details, I don't know if it will be implemented in time for the 7.2 release or later, or exactly what the nature of the slope will be (I personally expect an angled one like the plan drawings show, not an M1-style glacis as per the perspective drawing). However, I am confident enough that it's going to happen that I make mention of it now.

Thanks for finishing our fight. Now here is to hoping we accomplished the right thing.

Any links to FiM?

View Postrotorian, on Feb 15 2012 - 17:18, said:

Please, please do not encourage the ponyzombie, lest the apocalypse happens  sooner than expected.



Mucho grass.

Now, some lock one the ponies.

g,d,r
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CCC_Dober #2494 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 22:53

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Nice vid there mow +1

Made me wish back the good ol' days of kickass and awesome =)

SFC_Storm #2495 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 23:29

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View PostLoooSeR78V, on Feb 14 2012 - 08:19, said:

1) IS-7 don't have all side armor protected by skirts. I have replay, where my AMX13 75 punched through side armor from ~500 meters and IS-7 cathched fire, dumping it's HP to ~19%.
Side armor is more complex - upper side can be panned by ~200mm pen cannons, falseboard is more problematic, lower part of sides can be penned by T-28. :o

2) E-75>IS-4 in frontal combat, becouse 160 at 60 degr > 140 at 61 degr.

3) IS-3 have less hp/t ratio than Is-7 IIRC. Why IS-3 is faster?

4)IS-7 have exselent frontal armor, but this is 1 and only goodthing in IS-7.
Bad accsel, bad turning, bad modules HP, ammorack after lower glacis, fuel tanks just after 100 mm vertical side armor, same story with engine (BTW Ammorack IRL should be located after falseboard, not in current place), ammorack in turret is total Bullsh*t, low aiming speed, nerfed max speed.

5) i never said that IS-7 is not used by Clans. But they don't use it everywhere, Clans will sometimes use Maus-only teams in some maps, so IS-7 is not "best".




1) Problem is in this -> Devs  specially putted some modules after weakest part of the side armor, like fuletanks and ammorack, which is bullshit, non-historicaly, etc. etc.

2) "IS-7 mobility was nerfed becouse of "Ahnenerbe magic"/SerB/  ;)"
Spoiler                     

3) So maybe it's better to wait another IS-7-like tank and start to complain after?

4) Post your suggestions to devs, not to other forum-members  :) And 1 more thing - WG whant to make tree differnet in playstyle, so no copy-paste tanks. There was intresting qoute, but i lost link to it  :(


Maybe your raading failed you, no one versaid they wanted a IS& clone.....Go find me link where we said we want IS7

In fact Devs were the ones who said "It will play similar to the IS7" not us.

IS7 is by far the most used CW tank in game right now....BY FAR, I dont have numbers but I bet money that IS7`s make up half the total nuumbers in CW including ARTY E100 Maus`s etc.

The tank I want is nothing like a IS7 at all.

ALl I want is 255-26-m mFrontal Hull, or 135mm@65 degrees, not the 150mm@55/60/65/70 that the IS7 has.

TheIS7 has great side Armor, you are just plain wrong if you think otherwise...Name me 1 tank besides Maus that has better bouncability on its sides....There isnt BTW.

We want a unique tank, but we dont wanna be the DMG sponges anymore, lt the french do that now, I dont want the best Armor but I wan 1 side [Front] that is damned tough...For a T9 lol

ALl im asking for is a 15mm less Armor frontally than the E75 on both upper and lowers. I also do want the T34`s speed, its fast for a heavy but not at all french fast.


WE DONT WANT A IS7 CLONE

255mm front 195 lower [which is massive BTW]
T34 speed which isnt unfair at all at T10 with al lth others Armor Dwarfing it.
120m M58 with 420 DMG 2900-3k DPM. Only 270 more than the E100`s 750 Alpha mxxed with its 345mm Upper Armor and 215mm Lower. And only 500 more than the IS7 in exchange for same cruising speed 35-28 KMH but the T110 will max out there the IS7 will barrel down hills at 50 kmh, that sai the better transmission and P/W will definately help it climb hills better....See this is balance give and takes and they are opposites so how could it be a clone?

Lastly about side Armor your crazy if you think ths isn ta brilliant side armor setup.

Look how eaasy it is to shoot the "Weak IS7 sides" ROFL

http://media.desura....74/19481955.jpg

SFC_Storm #2496 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 23:40

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View PostArzoo, on Feb 14 2012 - 07:11, said:

You keep posting that we should get that tank, but honestly I'm having trouble seeing it as balanced. Why in the world would I ever want an IS-7 if I could have the T95? Its frontal armor is just as good, it probably moves around as fast in most situations, and at anything close to 3k DPM the M58 would be way better than the S-70.

If the T110 is getting 127mm thick armor at 60 degrees then yeah, everything else about it better kick the crap out of the IS-7's stats, but at 260mm effective frontal armor you have to start looking for things about the tank that are worse than the IS-7... and if all you can come up with is a little lower top-speed and missing side armor and a bigger cupola then I'd give it a matter of days before you see nerfs on the order of magnitude of everything they did to the T29/T32 all at once.


ALso I never once posted we should get the M60, I posted that its hull was thesame looking as the T110`s, a Wedge. ALso that it shared similiar Optics, and look at the damned turret and tell me it doesnt look like the T110`s....It looks exactly like it.

Hull=Wedge
Turret= very similar Tumor and spotlight, and it might actually be the same one, if it is It better be beastly. The M60`s Turret was like n Avg of 410mm throughout turret with 1800 its weakest [NO slopearea]

Ok Ready with my 260mm Upper and 195 Lower with great 420 DMG gun her isa list of iS& things that PWN it.

Entire front [WHich is the most important Armor in game] and it ouldnt beat it by a little. 2 342mm Plates that both have vetical and lateral slopeas well meaning HEAT is nullifiedso badly its about thesame as firng 235 PEn roundsfrom E100. Normal upper Glacis 289mm again the diff between 260 and 290 is MASSIVE, I can name alot of guns in ga,e that are equal or more than 260....

Always beats 260
120mm French AMX120-50b=267mm
130mm IS4-IS7 =260
155mm T30-T95 =276mm
BL10 OBJ=      285mm
JT`s 128=      275mm

They always beat 260mm but only beat 290mm [IS7 upper Plate, with 342mm on with eitherside of main upper]


Beats 260 40-50% [ALl nubers given 100% roll, which never happens ):
120mm T34 = 310
128mm [Maus/E75/E100] =307.5
Ferdi =307.5
VK4502(P) = 307.5
AMX 120/50b= 333

They all beat 260mm but only 85% RNG roll beats IS7.

Beats it Few times but still can hit 260
E50=          275
Patton=       272
T54=          275
KT =          281
IS3=BL9x2     281
ISU152/OBJ=   286
Lowe=         292

Once more all beats 260, and only 1 beats 290mm and thats a perfect roll



Lol with Gold

All 9 T9 Meds
Patton= 265
E50= 260
T54= 294
BatChat= 308

T9 Meds with gold Everything has potentialto beat T110, Only 2 Can beat IS7 if they get 85-90% RNG roll.

KT/105mm= 285
IS3/Bl9= 265
T32/90mm= 258 [LOL not 105mm bu 90 will do]
Lowe    = 294...massive

T8 Heavies all have T110 killing potential, though it is where it shoul be very low chances...@290mm foregt about it, IS7 again shows whos daddy.

6 French tanks can hit 260 with gold and all can hurt T110, only Gold MX100 can beat IS7
AMX 90mm f3 =248
AMX 90mm dc45=258
AMX100mm= 308



Point is, its not just a little better, its worlds apart, its not like its not like 130mm to 160mm where most guns can pen them both. Its a huge jump from 260 a gun  tiered at highest T9  vs 290mm, Higher than the Highest Pen in game.

Point is 260 is still very beatable but has to make the opponent actually think or aim, it wont be "Oh theres a T110, Free Kill" like the T34 is now in most peeps eyes. At thesame time it will protect from lucky, random and lkike I said unzomeed targets.

This isnt a IS7 clone its ascalpel with enough defense to punsh lazy players who dont aim and are used to autoaiming US Tanks or Hullng them, but rewards those players with higher Armor by using there more potent armo to there advantage.

In game now US tanks do require tonsa to think about to do well and i love it, I dont think this tank you could overextendt and survive in TBH, but what this increase would do is make your enemy play smarter.

When fighting a T30 you hid waited for him to fir rush out sho hm 2 times in hull, Rense and repeat...There was no challenge to players wh oalready have an easier tank to use anyways. My Tank would make them have o play like good US tankersfo at least 1 kill.

Thats what the game needs IMO, More thinking number 1.
More variation in Weapons and tracks/suspensions etc etc, lik putting a weight limit on a tank to chose from top 1500 HP maybach or getting the 150mm [Just off top of my head :)]

Customization will be key, that will IMO show real stats, so gfar WOT rewards players who adapt to a tank they like bu most these guys just use that tank over and over. ALso Platoon vs non platoon stats are vital and shouldn't even be considered the same.

Anyways 260 is not ven close to op and stps about 50% T9 Gold [Totally Fair] it also stops 505 of T9 guns...Once more perfect. And mobility, +3k DPM gun are well worth Those 2 upper left and upper right plates @ 342mm thick,
290mm Upper look at left picture picture, then imagine nose in cener, 342m plates protect Magazine/Ammo racks and upper protects drivers face at 290mm, but right at his groin is the pike/nose its 217mm with a 40mm weldm so 257mm.
Guys the Armor is just beastly period, better than Maus from front Samd DPM as Maus, way better turret Armor, and look how the sides are shaped, you shoot high your screwed yu hit A typ skirt then hit thickest part of armor, or you have to shoot lower where slope is less and risked hitting track and no doing DMG or worse, hitting track`s shell bounce into bottom hull but going upward and now your shell hits autobounce lol

http://media.desura....74/19481955.jpg

Lostwingman #2497 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 23:43

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The T30s gun is all kinds of inconsistent....just watch what happens in the beginning with the stupid KV-13....
Seriously though, matches like this are why my T30 has crap damage averages.

Batosi #2498 Posted Feb 16 2012 - 00:01

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View PostCCC_Dober, on Feb 15 2012 - 22:33, said:

Aye and I'm sure this video here will help people to realize what kind of potential the T30 lost over time. The video shows a random dude on the russian server, nvm his 'tactics', just look at the accuracy and consistency of the shots. Nowadays we have an aiming circle easily twice as big and fully aimed shots will go anywhere inside that circle.

I didn't have a T30 back then and all I can say is WOW!  I really envy the T30 of thoes days instead of the Saturn Rings I have now.  But again, just WOW!

GoldMountain #2499 Posted Feb 16 2012 - 00:17

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I didn't either....
Such a gimpy tank now...

With Vstab and GLD after turning your turret it takes 4.5 seconds to fully settle your aim...
5 seconds after stopping from full speed

Thats just crap, you can't bloody do anything with that....
Although I had a roflstomp moment where i was auto aiming a T30 driving at full speed to cover, fired and hit a type-59 that was nowhere near it....All this at 450m range
Wish i had battle recording on :D
But then the next shot I fired missed an E-50 at 60 meters....

cipher12 #2500 Posted Feb 16 2012 - 00:36

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Ah so thats why the high tier Russian tanks have such ungodly side armor well more you know.




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