Jump to content


T110`s Armor

Over 5000 pages of comfort!

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
109624 replies to this topic

Arzoo #41 Posted Nov 07 2011 - 21:01

    Captain

  • Players
  • 6061 battles
  • 1,780
  • [SF-G] SF-G
  • Member since:
    05-09-2011
I'm pretty sure that Eve isn't running much of a physics engine to control all those spaceships, nor attempting to calculate who can see what (it just lets you see everything within a certain distance regardless of what's between you and them).

I don't know much about Bigworld, but judging by the crazy limitations they've had to place on draw distance and numbers of tanks I suspect that it's just a poor game engine choice for WoT. I hear Wargaming isn't exactly on great terms with Bigworld either. My guess is that if they had the choice they'd be using an engine of their own design that could be modified as they saw fit.


tl;dr there are plenty of things I would blame on wargaming (the T34, for instance), but I think their hands are somewhat tied when it comes to stuff related to the maps and numbers of tanks; they're working on untying the knots but it'll take a long time.

nublex #42 Posted Nov 07 2011 - 23:12

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 17549 battles
  • 2,992
  • Member since:
    01-05-2011
My guess for most of the limitation is there so they can maximize the computing on server-side.

Arzoo #43 Posted Nov 08 2011 - 02:44

    Captain

  • Players
  • 6061 battles
  • 1,780
  • [SF-G] SF-G
  • Member since:
    05-09-2011

View Postnublex, on Nov 07 2011 - 23:12, said:

My guess for most of the limitation is there so they can maximize the computing on server-side.

Almost assuredly. They said that even 15v15 is a strain, and each additional tank increases computation more than the previous one.

Batosi #44 Posted Nov 08 2011 - 07:52

    Major

  • Players
  • 37835 battles
  • 2,811
  • [MUPS] MUPS
  • Member since:
    05-07-2011

View PostArzoo, on Nov 07 2011 - 21:01, said:

I'm pretty sure that Eve isn't running much of a physics engine to control all those spaceships, nor attempting to calculate who can see what (it just lets you see everything within a certain distance regardless of what's between you and them).

I don't know much about Bigworld, but judging by the crazy limitations they've had to place on draw distance and numbers of tanks I suspect that it's just a poor game engine choice for WoT. I hear Wargaming isn't exactly on great terms with Bigworld either. My guess is that if they had the choice they'd be using an engine of their own design that could be modified as they saw fit.


tl;dr there are plenty of things I would blame on wargaming (the T34, for instance), but I think their hands are somewhat tied when it comes to stuff related to the maps and numbers of tanks; they're working on untying the knots but it'll take a long time.

EVE does A LOT. And you don't see everything, Cloaking Devices are very much apart of EVE, Bombers, Recon Ships, Special Ops ships are constantly poping in and out doing their special jobs.  And there are several factors that can void your cloak.  And so much more going on with the other ships with Electronic Warfare going off like crazy, Drones flying everywhere, the stardard shooting/range/damage etc, with calcs for Transversal, etc, etc.  Not to mention their graphics can get very detailed.

EVE has massive amounts of things happening.  But that being said, EVE has had to keep upgradeing their servers to help keep up with whats going on.  Last I read, EVE had the 5th most powerful server in the World in the civilian sector.

Why I think there is some programming issues and Hardware might be a big part of it for a combined effect.  It might be, WoT has bit off more then it can chew going the Free gaming route or being to frugal with their money for servers.

Somnus #45 Posted Nov 08 2011 - 15:44

    Captain

  • Players
  • 24018 battles
  • 1,434
  • Member since:
    09-12-2011
The thing about simulating space combat is that 99% of the engagement sphere is empty space. Most of the time, ships can simply move in straight lines and arcs without ever interacting with their surroundings other than visually. The WoT maps may be small, but remember that every inch is coated in detailed texture. And every movement of every tank has to interact with every bump and groove of that texture. There is a *lot* of information coded into that small volume.

Iamsamsara #46 Posted Nov 08 2011 - 16:44

    Private

  • Players
  • 6313 battles
  • 6
  • Member since:
    06-26-2011
Were you playing the same EVE I was?  The attempted abort on Lady Scarllettes Titan lagged out the entire server, commands were taking up to 30 minutes to execute, and the majority of the computations were not being run.  Logistics had limitless capacitor, not that it helped because even after they managed to lock a target they still couldn't activate modules.  This is in space, with no textures or interactive landscapes and the ability to move in a striaght line uninhibited for hours.  In a WOT map you have rocks, hills, trees, and a vast number of other objects that the server needs to consider while running computations, in a sense each object acts as a drone would in EVE.

SFC_Storm #47 Posted Nov 09 2011 - 07:13

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 15366 battles
  • 3,855
  • Member since:
    12-30-2010

View PostBatosi, on Nov 08 2011 - 07:52, said:

EVE does A LOT. And you don't see everything, Cloaking Devices are very much apart of EVE, Bombers, Recon Ships, Special Ops ships are constantly poping in and out doing their special jobs.  And there are several factors that can void your cloak.  And so much more going on with the other ships with Electronic Warfare going off like crazy, Drones flying everywhere, the stardard shooting/range/damage etc, with calcs for Transversal, etc, etc.  Not to mention their graphics can get very detailed.

EVE has massive amounts of things happening.  But that being said, EVE has had to keep upgradeing their servers to help keep up with whats going on.  Last I read, EVE had the 5th most powerful server in the World in the civilian sector.

Why I think there is some programming issues and Hardware might be a big part of it for a combined effect.  It might be, WoT has bit off more then it can chew going the Free gaming route or being to frugal with their money for servers.


Yeah Eve`s server bank is the largest purely private in the world. Other are universitys govermnments etc.

But yeah Eve has signature radius which is size of your ship and how easy it is to hit you [Profile] And even if the ship is smaller but its materials make it s signiture bigger its cloak will disengage etc.

Eve is massively more complicated than WOT....By like 2 milion times, Every item in eve is made by players so you have mining, producing, fighting, lootting etc.

My point was they have 300 vs 300 every day and 100 vs 100 every hour andat 100 vs 100 its totaly chaos with Drones hat attack othr ships missiles lasers etx flying in 360 degree direction so veiw range and depth of Armor seems simple to me. And if Eve can have Shields HP/Armor HP/Hull/Structure HP [Probabbly what World of ships will have] you can tell me WOT cant adjust for differnt Armor types etc, but lik I said it be so easy to give tanks bonus`s. Good vs Ap bad vs HE has 5% more speed going up hills etc [diesels]

So im all for depth of items, it weeds out the casual from the hardcore.

Eve is way to intense for the WOW crowd as a whole and WOT i great because if you have 30 mins you can play a few games in EVE its so in depth its a 2 hr minimum.

The trick is to balance them

SFC_Storm #48 Posted Nov 09 2011 - 07:17

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 15366 battles
  • 3,855
  • Member since:
    12-30-2010

View PostIamsamsara, on Nov 08 2011 - 16:44, said:

Were you playing the same EVE I was?  The attempted abort on Lady Scarllettes Titan lagged out the entire server, commands were taking up to 30 minutes to execute, and the majority of the computations were not being run.  Logistics had limitless capacitor, not that it helped because even after they managed to lock a target they still couldn't activate modules.  This is in space, with no textures or interactive landscapes and the ability to move in a striaght line uninhibited for hours.  In a WOT map you have rocks, hills, trees, and a vast number of other objects that the server needs to consider while running computations, in a sense each object acts as a drone would in EVE.


They have  40k players at anytime on 1 server not 40 different rooms, also if they didnt re-inforce the node it was there bad, they arent perfect but my point is 15 v 15 in a 3x map is easy to do

Batosi #49 Posted Nov 09 2011 - 08:16

    Major

  • Players
  • 37835 battles
  • 2,811
  • [MUPS] MUPS
  • Member since:
    05-07-2011

View PostSomnus, on Nov 08 2011 - 15:44, said:

The thing about simulating space combat is that 99% of the engagement sphere is empty space. Most of the time, ships can simply move in straight lines and arcs without ever interacting with their surroundings other than visually. The WoT maps may be small, but remember that every inch is coated in detailed texture. And every movement of every tank has to interact with every bump and groove of that texture. There is a *lot* of information coded into that small volume.

Not quit true, EVE has a lot of things it has to keep track off, there are multipul areas and battles in one zone and its all on one cluster, and it has to keep track of floating debris from dead ships, bodies, cans etc, etc.  In one solor system you can have A LOT of different battles going on that have to be kept track off.  So ya, a lot is happening.

Batosi #50 Posted Nov 09 2011 - 08:23

    Major

  • Players
  • 37835 battles
  • 2,811
  • [MUPS] MUPS
  • Member since:
    05-07-2011

View PostCmd_Storm, on Nov 09 2011 - 07:13, said:

Yeah Eve`s server bank is the largest purely private in the world. Other are universitys govermnments etc.

But yeah Eve has signature radius which is size of your ship and how easy it is to hit you [Profile] And even if the ship is smaller but its materials make it s signiture bigger its cloak will disengage etc.

Eve is massively more complicated than WOT....By like 2 milion times, Every item in eve is made by players so you have mining, producing, fighting, lootting etc.

My point was they have 300 vs 300 every day and 100 vs 100 every hour andat 100 vs 100 its totaly chaos with Drones hat attack othr ships missiles lasers etx flying in 360 degree direction so veiw range and depth of Armor seems simple to me. And if Eve can have Shields HP/Armor HP/Hull/Structure HP [Probabbly what World of ships will have] you can tell me WOT cant adjust for differnt Armor types etc, but lik I said it be so easy to give tanks bonus`s. Good vs Ap bad vs HE has 5% more speed going up hills etc [diesels]

So im all for depth of items, it weeds out the casual from the hardcore.

Eve is way to intense for the WOW crowd as a whole and WOT i great because if you have 30 mins you can play a few games in EVE its so in depth its a 2 hr minimum.

The trick is to balance them

Lol wish I had read your post befor I wrote mine, this is soooo correct.

And as to the other poster, where was I?  Well that depends, I have been in on Titan kills, and I have lagged out, it all depends on server load, once it hits several hundered I lag out, but I know other players it still playable for.  I am waiting for a total new system this Tax season, the system I am on now I built in 2004 which I think maaaay just be responsible for my invis Tank issues along with some issues from WoT side and I know for a fact can't handle good PVP in EVE now.

But EVE probably has a multiplier of whats going on in one sector compaired to WoT.  I am just curious how much income they are generating to be worth it for them to take WoT up a notch hardware wise so it can bring WoT up a notch.  Oh and btw, I have played EQ1 and 2 and they have alot more detail then WoT and alot more people per area.  So don't use terrain as an excuse.

Duty_Remains #51 Posted Nov 09 2011 - 08:49

    Major

  • Players
  • 17286 battles
  • 2,714
  • [CMFRT] CMFRT
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011
Is this thread about the armor of the T110 or map size?

First Kudo's to OP for good info... but I doubt reality stands much luck in the face of whatever the devs think will be balanced.

Also related to the deliberate understating of certain things effectiveness... I know from my time in service that the US Military deliberately undervalued the effectiveness of its equipment in training simulations (i.e. laser tag, but bigger and clunkier with tanks).  Just in case the Russians were watching or reading our training reports.  I know that some of the data in operators manuals for equipment didn't match up to real life experience.

BTW: NEVER tell a Sergeant Major the book must be wrong, especially not during a promotion board.:Smile-hiding:

Arzoo #52 Posted Nov 09 2011 - 09:18

    Captain

  • Players
  • 6061 battles
  • 1,780
  • [SF-G] SF-G
  • Member since:
    05-09-2011
Signature RADIUS. As in, Sphere. That's one of the easiest things to model in a computer. A WoT tank has what, 16 surfaces PER SIDE on each tank? Those 30 tanks are probably as complicated as over 300 ships in Eve. Don't forget that projectiles in WoT need real physics. Does Eve use real physics, or does it roll dice every time you fire and just animate a hit or miss based on that? Does Eve calculate spotting based on something being between you and the target? Line of Sight requires ray tracing, which is very, very expensive, especially since each tank needs to send out something to the tune of 6 rays per enemy tank.

Eve does amazing things in terms of scale, but they're partially doing it via brute force (ridiculously strong server), and can take a lot of shortcuts by not pretending to have real physics and hand-waving detection into a bunch of spheres that don't block line of sight.

WoT is trying to accurately simulate very complicated (computationally) objects shooting other objects through the air at each other, and all these objects need to not only check collisions but also check line of sight to as many as 90 distinct points around once a second. Map-size is one thing that might not require huge amounts of extra computing to increase, but I really am not sure what ramifications that would have for their calculations (a lot depends on their optimizations). I do know, however, that it's practically a miracle that the game's spotting system works in real-time with even 15 tanks per side.


And that's why the T110's armor should be awesome!

Batosi #53 Posted Nov 09 2011 - 16:08

    Major

  • Players
  • 37835 battles
  • 2,811
  • [MUPS] MUPS
  • Member since:
    05-07-2011

View PostArzoo, on Nov 09 2011 - 09:18, said:

Signature RADIUS. As in, Sphere. That's one of the easiest things to model in a computer. A WoT tank has what, 16 surfaces PER SIDE on each tank? Those 30 tanks are probably as complicated as over 300 ships in Eve. Don't forget that projectiles in WoT need real physics. Does Eve use real physics, or does it roll dice every time you fire and just animate a hit or miss based on that? Does Eve calculate spotting based on something being between you and the target? Line of Sight requires ray tracing, which is very, very expensive, especially since each tank needs to send out something to the tune of 6 rays per enemy tank.

Eve does amazing things in terms of scale, but they're partially doing it via brute force (ridiculously strong server), and can take a lot of shortcuts by not pretending to have real physics and hand-waving detection into a bunch of spheres that don't block line of sight.

WoT is trying to accurately simulate very complicated (computationally) objects shooting other objects through the air at each other, and all these objects need to not only check collisions but also check line of sight to as many as 90 distinct points around once a second. Map-size is one thing that might not require huge amounts of extra computing to increase, but I really am not sure what ramifications that would have for their calculations (a lot depends on their optimizations). I do know, however, that it's practically a miracle that the game's spotting system works in real-time with even 15 tanks per side.


And that's why the T110's armor should be awesome!


Yup, EVE does a lot of that and more, does that help?  Imagin a 100 on 100 fight, and half of each side launches 5 drones apeice, so that you are now tracking 700 Targets, and the transversl of thoes Targets vs weapon hit/miss and on top of that there are missiles flying all over the place and Electronic Warfare and counter Warfare going off and some of that Ewarfare is chaning the stats of friends and foes alike.  Some of those ships are Cloaking in and out lauching Torpedoes and it has to track debries for those cloaked ships.  That is A LOT going on.

Oh and the Radius as in the Sphere, alters alot of calculations of weapons hitting/missing and how much damage they do.  So ya, a lot going on.

As to the other poster, yup, map size is apart of this now, it effects how the Tanks play out and what they need to make them work vs other Tanks.  Just like in EVE, and many other games, what developers envision and what actually happens, usually ends up quite different.  How the made SPGs forced the game to evolve in ways that I am sure were not accounted for.  Which has had a domino effect on all the Tanks combined with Terrain.  And why I think there are some programming short commings and hardware issues.

Which all boils down to, the T110 ands its armor.  What that Tank needs to be different and yet competitive in how WoT has evolved.  For the Paper Tanks have added to the warping and evolving of WoT.

phishplate #54 Posted Nov 09 2011 - 18:37

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 36071 battles
  • 104
  • [BETAS] BETAS
  • Member since:
    03-01-2011
I agree with Storm. This tank should be what it was. The hypocrisy of the way tanks are developed and installed in this game is astounding. I would rather face an IS 7 rather than go against an IS 4. The American line is over due for its properly made and competitive tier 9 and 10. They already broke away from the whole WW2 era tank game with a lot of what they have in the game which nullifies any argument to the contrary. If they release this tank and its a nerfed POS I will be convinced that the developers are intentionally discriminating against Americans. I will then stop playing this game, and GIVE MY MOMEY to another development team to play a different game. Anyone who knows and has pride in our country and military will do the same. Don't fund these people just so they can spit in your faces.

SFC_Storm #55 Posted Nov 09 2011 - 19:22

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 15366 battles
  • 3,855
  • Member since:
    12-30-2010

View PostArzoo, on Nov 09 2011 - 09:18, said:

Signature RADIUS. As in, Sphere. That's one of the easiest things to model in a computer. A WoT tank has what, 16 surfaces PER SIDE on each tank? Those 30 tanks are probably as complicated as over 300 ships in Eve. Don't forget that projectiles in WoT need real physics. Does Eve use real physics, or does it roll dice every time you fire and just animate a hit or miss based on that? Does Eve calculate spotting based on something being between you and the target? Line of Sight requires ray tracing, which is very, very expensive, especially since each tank needs to send out something to the tune of 6 rays per enemy tank.

Eve does amazing things in terms of scale, but they're partially doing it via brute force (ridiculously strong server), and can take a lot of shortcuts by not pretending to have real physics and hand-waving detection into a bunch of spheres that don't block line of sight.

WoT is trying to accurately simulate very complicated (computationally) objects shooting other objects through the air at each other, and all these objects need to not only check collisions but also check line of sight to as many as 90 distinct points around once a second. Map-size is one thing that might not require huge amounts of extra computing to increase, but I really am not sure what ramifications that would have for their calculations (a lot depends on their optimizations). I do know, however, that it's practically a miracle that the game's spotting system works in real-time with even 15 tanks per side.


And that's why the T110's armor should be awesome!

Eve has tons of complicated calculations persecond in fact since it has totally upgradable ships that change there speed size accel power grid capacitor use etc it s way more complicated, in Wot its simple a T34 is a T34 with maybe 10% faster loading or 25% more camo etc, EVE`s ships aree basically stock and custom made by player IE a Battleship can be a miner, a repairer ship or a complete warship, it can have long/Short range lasers, Autocannons, Artillery or it can be a dedicated Drone boat with nothing but reaper style drones protecting it.

And every object including drones are doing velocity calcs and Point in Space targeting, all while turning on micro warpdrives increasing weight decreasing mass etc......Sorry but 1 is infinitely more in depth.

And even if it was as simple as shooting a bubble which is lol [way harder than that If explosion velocity of missiles and transversal of turrets can match enemys "Bubble" which increase in size but not ships mass] they have 100 vs 100 fights everyhour in a grid 500km`s Cubed

Mow_Mow #56 Posted Nov 09 2011 - 20:50

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 12058 battles
  • 14,881
  • [CMFRT] CMFRT
  • Member since:
    10-25-2010
You are comparing apples to oranges. Raytracing and true collision detection are much more computationally difficult than calculating vectors. Have you ever done 3D modeling? How much longer does it take when you turn on raytracing in a render scene? Substantially longer. Adding about 5 more objects? Not that much.

SFC_Storm #57 Posted Nov 09 2011 - 21:04

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 15366 battles
  • 3,855
  • Member since:
    12-30-2010

View PostMow_Mow, on Nov 09 2011 - 20:50, said:

You are comparing apples to oranges. Raytracing and true collision detection are much more computationally difficult than calculating vectors. Have you ever done 3D modeling? How much longer does it take when you turn on raytracing in a render scene? Substantially longer. Adding about 5 more objects? Not that much.

I understand Mow`s but you cannot tell me adding 3x size the map but keeping the 500m view range would be to much to handle, And im sorry but you cant convince me Eve has an easier time computing its ezer angled but 800 people Solar syetem and 40k avg anygiven moment all on 1 server not like WOW where or WOT where you sign on to US/RUS/EU.

Im not fully aware of WOTS server I am however aware that Eve`s Server Is the most powerful in the world thats completely privatized and every single object including 5 drones per ship, every missile spammed, every laser, bullet, asteroid, gun turret etc is constantly doing location checks in a comepletely 3-d environment that`s grid is 500km cubed.

My point is the 500m view range is similiar to Eve`s 500km view range if a building is ran over I dont see it until its within my range of seeing it, and Tanks dont fly so the server knows at ALL TIMES YOUR TANK IS GROUNDED and on a 2-d Surface, in Eve its everywhwere.

Its not equal I know that and yes hitting its surface areas in diff spots is harder but for god sakes its only a few hit boxes with 30 players, in a battle of 1k with Eve there is ovr 150k objects the server detects at any time.

Arzoo #58 Posted Nov 09 2011 - 23:31

    Captain

  • Players
  • 6061 battles
  • 1,780
  • [SF-G] SF-G
  • Member since:
    05-09-2011

View PostCmd_Storm, on Nov 09 2011 - 21:04, said:

I understand Mow`s but you cannot tell me adding 3x size the map but keeping the 500m view range would be to much to handle, And im sorry but you cant convince me Eve has an easier time computing its ezer angled but 800 people Solar syetem and 40k avg anygiven moment all on 1 server not like WOW where or WOT where you sign on to US/RUS/EU.

Im not fully aware of WOTS server I am however aware that Eve`s Server Is the most powerful in the world thats completely privatized and every single object including 5 drones per ship, every missile spammed, every laser, bullet, asteroid, gun turret etc is constantly doing location checks in a comepletely 3-d environment that`s grid is 500km cubed.

My point is the 500m view range is similiar to Eve`s 500km view range if a building is ran over I dont see it until its within my range of seeing it, and Tanks dont fly so the server knows at ALL TIMES YOUR TANK IS GROUNDED and on a 2-d Surface, in Eve its everywhwere.

Its not equal I know that and yes hitting its surface areas in diff spots is harder but for god sakes its only a few hit boxes with 30 players, in a battle of 1k with Eve there is ovr 150k objects the server detects at any time.

I'm not sure Eve is really keeping track of the location of projectiles; does it really determine hits based on collision with target, or does each attack make a "roll" to determine hit or miss? Because in the latter case the server just does a relatively easy calculation for hit/miss and lets the user's computer handle drawing everything. I don't know a ton about Eve, but just from the descriptions in this thread I can tell that they've designed a lot of gameplay elements based on what allows for the best optimizations and shortcuts (shortcuts are a good thing in computation).

And yes, it really is that much harder to draw complicated vehicles in a "simulator" environment like WoT. WoT is not 2D; just because you can't fly doesn't mean the z-axis stopped existing.

I guess it makes more sense to me as a Computer Science major. I think you're not understanding what is and what isn't hard to calculate on a computer. Ray-tracing, which WoT does a lot of, is EXTREMELY expensive. If your computer was using ray-tracing to handle your graphics it would take hours to render a single frame (it would, however, look unbelievably awesome). WoT can do it real time because they're using it for line of sight rather than lighting calculations, but it's still difficult; the reason the spotting system is so imperfect in the first place is because they can't afford to be any more accurate via brute force than they are now, and any improvements must be via very clever optimizations.

Batosi #59 Posted Nov 09 2011 - 23:54

    Major

  • Players
  • 37835 battles
  • 2,811
  • [MUPS] MUPS
  • Member since:
    05-07-2011

View PostArzoo, on Nov 09 2011 - 23:31, said:

I'm not sure Eve is really keeping track of the location of projectiles; does it really determine hits based on collision with target, or does each attack make a "roll" to determine hit or miss? Because in the latter case the server just does a relatively easy calculation for hit/miss and lets the user's computer handle drawing everything. I don't know a ton about Eve, but just from the descriptions in this thread I can tell that they've designed a lot of gameplay elements based on what allows for the best optimizations and shortcuts (shortcuts are a good thing in computation).

And yes, it really is that much harder to draw complicated vehicles in a "simulator" environment like WoT. WoT is not 2D; just because you can't fly doesn't mean the z-axis stopped existing.

I guess it makes more sense to me as a Computer Science major. I think you're not understanding what is and what isn't hard to calculate on a computer. Ray-tracing, which WoT does a lot of, is EXTREMELY expensive. If your computer was using ray-tracing to handle your graphics it would take hours to render a single frame (it would, however, look unbelievably awesome). WoT can do it real time because they're using it for line of sight rather than lighting calculations, but it's still difficult; the reason the spotting system is so imperfect in the first place is because they can't afford to be any more accurate via brute force than they are now, and any improvements must be via very clever optimizations.

Collision has to be taken into account in EVE.  That is why EVE has to keep track of where everything is and there are AoE weapons that will decloak a ship.  They are what decloaks ships and when ships bump into each other there are some major effects which are speed dependent.

What WoT is doing is not new in the gaming world.  The problem is the experience of getting what they are doing and doing it right.  I believe there are things that can be done better on the programing side, but like all games, its a learning curve and as far as I know most games evolve some over time and get smoother.

We haven't reached that point yet and things need to be pointed out so that they can keep up the good work and not just keep making maps and new Tanks but improving the very system itself and make those maps bigger.  Bigger so that Tanks can do the jobs they were meant to.  WoT needs to evolve and improve just like any other game does and these are some of the areas that it needs to look into.

They have already mentioned larger maps with larger teams in the future so we know its NOT something that can't be done.  But the issue is map wise at least, it needs to be done on the pub level to.  And even if you did add more players, so what?   You still have the same number of players but just in a bigger setting, and if people enjoy the game more, it will mean more money and they can spend it on some upgraded servers.  EVE had to upgrade several times, the more they upgraded, the happier the players were and the larger EVE grew in both players and profit.

SFC_Storm #60 Posted Nov 10 2011 - 00:16

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 15366 battles
  • 3,855
  • Member since:
    12-30-2010

View PostArzoo, on Nov 09 2011 - 23:31, said:

I'm not sure Eve is really keeping track of the location of projectiles; does it really determine hits based on collision with target, or does each attack make a "roll" to determine hit or miss? Because in the latter case the server just does a relatively easy calculation for hit/miss and lets the user's computer handle drawing everything.

And yes, it really is that much harder to draw complicated vehicles in a "simulator" environment like WoT. WoT is not 2D; just because you can't fly doesn't mean the z-axis stopped existing.

I guess it makes more sense to me as a Computer Science major. I think you're not understanding what is and what isn't hard to calculate on a computer. Ray-tracing, which WoT does a lot of, is EXTREMELY expensive. If your computer was using ray-tracing to handle your graphics it would take hours to render a single frame (it would, however, look unbelievably awesome). WoT can do it real time because they're using it for line of sight rather than lighting calculations, but it's still difficult; the reason the spotting system is so imperfect in the first place is because they can't afford to be any more accurate via brute force than they are now, and any improvements must be via very clever optimizations.


In Eve Missiles are all checked to server and treated as "Ships" Guns arent, problem is the most popular and cheapest bang for your buck is a ship called the Drake that has 7 Missle launchers usually grouped in 2 groups 1 3 and 1 of 4 appearing to be only 2 missiles but hit like 7 . And Each bigger ship has at least 5 Drones which are all doing velocity calculations vs transversal themselves, for instance a Frigate/Interceptor thats lightning fast will get hit by a light drone because its Sig radiusxTransversal Velocity of both the Drone and target. But a Heavy Drone will miss most the time as they dont have turrets that can turn at those speeds.

Also a Large gun that cant hit a Interceptor as its sorbiting him [Like a T50 vs IS7] and be insta pop`d at 100km away because the transversal is within parameters.

Now what I will give you is the way EVe see`s objects, ships are only models to us and really they are [Put very very simply] Spheres in points of space with certain sizes moving at ertain speeds,but the grapics are very very good so if you highlight an enemy you can zoom to him and make it look like you are hi piloting.

But handling your computer drawing everything else is what WOT does, I can make my tank look like whatever I want, Not shape mind you but skin, and TBH Shaping in Programming is actually easy.

Think about if all of our compter side was stripped and what would WOT really be? A blank landscape with a few house to destroy and a few bombed out building, and Tanks models that cant be altered at all in any way. So basically they create a model with 2 turret`s and really just 1 sensor at begining of barrel and a few sensors at other parts of tank, then it has hit boxes, just look at Hit skins thats basically where the hitboxes are on the tanks and all they do is give them attributes Hit here=25% more likely to catch fire Hit here=50% driver death, Pen both boxes and 25%+50% of both....Im sorry thats ot so hard, all it is, is a FPS with the headshot theory, Leg=25% DMG Torso 75% arm 25% head 100% etc etc just with tanks and armor values.

Im saying its equally as hard as Eve IMO just in differant ways but there are more Dice rolls in WOT than EVE, in Eve its Transveral x sig radius of ship and Transversal x sig radius projectile and with missles there is explosion velocity vs explosion size v ship speed and ship size etc...Thats another thing Eve has multiple wepaons platforms WOT has 1 with differant levels of how they perform.

ANyways my whole point whas not to Dis WOT I love it but more Depth s needed, people get sick of it to fast, and Sorry to say but CW has become like EVE where they sell GOLD for RealMoney. Huge clangets tons of Gold then accepts Character who wants to buy gold into clan for a day then they transfer it and leave clan....Thats why I wanted Tierd clanwar so smaler clans had achance...ITseems like the more games gt bigger the more they become the same.

Anyways on topic thy should simply instead of normalization and trying to convert an obviously better armor to a standard BHN factor maybe they ned an Eve style AP Armor value and HE Armor Value.

IE
T54 had hard BHN Steel that was horrendous with heat and Hesh and HE rounds [the entire panels flew off or so much pressure hit without giving entire turrets shot str8 up.

T54 would now be
1600 HP  with +25% to normal HE and -25% to an HE round [BTW they need] need 4-5 types of Ammo Part of US Advantage over others was its WP and smoke/Incendiary rounds no one else had]

I think if Eve can even be simpler but handle 150 vs 150 and have HHUUUUUGGGGGEEEEE MAPS in Depth then WOT can and should have no problem doing 15 vs 15 in only 2-3x the size with differant Armor levels.

Think how much fun it would be to shoot APat one tank and HE at another and doing REAL DMG  not 15 here or 30 there but you would actually hae to think rather than shoot sides of every tank with same amoo etc etc

We need to shose is WOT deep or is it a counterstrike? Because if its simply counterstrike in tanks World of planes and ships etc will be failures and they might as well stop now, people want a mix between real {Esp us nerds] and fun. Balance is key to real and its boring, but to Arcadey and die hard players do.

Batosi is so right they need to enlarge maps so meds actually have a place in CW and im sorry but I`d wait 20 secs more loading for a game where my T9 med means something to my team in CW and im not uselss in anything but a T10 heavy or a T8 arty




9 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 9 guests, 0 anonymous users