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Official zero damage critical/penetration hit answer and discussion thread


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TK3600 #41 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 03:56

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i hate this too, but sometime people do this to me too, so it is ok for me.

Sweetpotato267 #42 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 04:09

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I often have HE rounds from howitzer type guns penetrate my wolverine's turret, but do no damage.

Sometimes when you shoot the side of a tank, their tracks absorb the shell. If all critical hits did HP damage, people would just continuously shoot external modules on fortresses like the Maus.  That would mean a gun with little penetration would always do damage, making armor useless, as long as they shoot for an external module like the tracks.I will try to draw a picture with words.  Imagine a tanks hitpoints as a box.  On the sides of that box, there are two smaller boxes representing the tracks.  The two smaller boxes each have their own independent hitpoints, capped at a number and going down to zero.  damage done to the smaller boxes has nothing to do with damage to the larger box, the tank itself.  you only see the larger boxes health, meaning that anytime you shoot a tank and get a critical hit, you are always doing hitpoints of damage to a module.  If there was a health bar for modules, you would see the module you hit decrease in health.  To recap, scoring a critical hit always destroys hitpoints of modules, you just cant see it reflected in the tanks health.

EDIT:  You all know that a flags capture points are reset when the capper loses hitpoints right?  well try shooting a capturing tanks tracks while it captures your base. the capture bar will reset.  this means you are doing damage to that tank.  you might not see the effect, and the tanks tracks might not even be shown as damaged, but you have taken out hitpoints from their module.

Zinegata #43 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 04:11

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Funnily, I had an incident yesterday where I hit a T29 3 times in a row, and all of them were no-damage crits.

OTOH, I'm also often the benificiary of this kind of "RNG mercy", so I don't really mind it one way or the other.

Shackram #44 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 04:13

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But, but, but....

Think of the Radiomen!

Drakenred #45 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 04:25

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Actualy the developers have explained this on several occasions

accoding to them, they have never, EVER duplicated a "Critical hit" messasage where damage was not done to a module or crew member.

the tanks health only shows the health pool of the Tank, not the tank and its modules.

It is very posible to hit and damage a Tank module and not the tank itself

Steeltrap #46 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 04:36

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View PostDrakenred, on Oct 17 2011 - 04:25, said:

Actualy the developers have explained this on several occasions

Many of us are well aware of how it works.

The point is IT IS RUBBISH FOR GAMEPLAY.

Just to continue the joke, if you're not the first person to damage the module (like tracks), YOU EARN NOTHING.

Yeah, terrific: I get a 'critical hit' that frequently does dick. The person I hit then kills ME. Then I go to the after battle report and guess what? They do not show on my 'personal results' tab as damage. Fantastic! Go to the effort of shooting something 3-4 tiers higher that the MM seems to think I should fight, and what do I get from it? 3 Derp rounds to arse of an IS-4 from M5 Stuart? NOTHING.

Awesome game mechanic is awesome.

Drakenred #47 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 04:41

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Oh I agree they need to properly credit all damage.

but the odds are that will just result in a pay nerf for normal damage.

baron_v_v #48 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 04:46

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Totally agree with the OP. This needs to happen. Critical hits are supposed to be above and beyond a normal hit, but in this game I groan every time I get one. At the very least, Critical Hits should be counted in the end of battle review for damage inflicted.

FreedomFighterEx #49 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 05:50

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Shell went inside tank, hit radio, slam radioman face but yet no damage?
it freaking 88mm Shell that went inside your tank and it does nothing?

how come track can absorb all damage, the tank turn side way to me and i shoot his side
shell went in middle of his track, deal nothing, no dmg, no track.

if people got a chance to play RO2 they will never return to WOT i can say this....

Toasted_Rofls #50 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 05:57

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Certain areas of the tracks should be excluded, because there is sometimes nothing behind said track but another track or air. Also, some parts of the tank will not be damaged, even if a round goes through them. The periscope on some tanks, for example. Often I have seen rounds hit them, go through them, and continue onto the turret, where they where unable to penetrate.

But, yeah, most of the time, critical hits should be doing full damage.

Arctander2 #51 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 05:57

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Something has definitely bugged and it's happening far more now. It used to be frustrating, now it's a royal pain in the ass.

Buff_Rumblecrunch #52 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 06:07

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I think i averaged about 2 Non-damaging crits per game today: a bit of an exaggeration maybe, but obviously something needs to be done about it. Out of my nearly 20 vehicles all of them had at least one 0 Damage crit today, a few of them had multiple in a single round.

Normally I'd put up with it. Honestly I've only ever seen these in a rare case, one in every ten games or so and I was fine with it. Every game today though, had at least one, some more.

slicker #53 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 06:15

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I was in my Ferdinand a couple of days ago and was fighting with an elite E75 with the 128 equipped. The first 2 shots he fires hit my Ferdi in the front plate, but i lose NO hp and NO modules/crew damaged what so ever.

I also get a lot of hits that say nothing, no Ding, No critical message.


But alas , the devs are happy , who cares about those pesky bugs when armies of Herpa Di Derpas buy `59s and Lowes by the tens of thousandths ?


Working as intended ha ?

Accidental__God #54 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 06:25

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I agree with OP.

Also its a pain since those 0 damage critical hits do not give you any xp or credits, not even any acknowledgement of hitting said players tank at the end of battle roll up, so I assume it effects your hit % as well.

It appears the only critical hits that would do any of the above would be a fire or ammo rack det. No points for killing their radioman.

Vorpal #55 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 19:45

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View PostDrakenred, on Oct 17 2011 - 02:26, said:

thats because its not a bug.

you either hit the gun, the radio(or the antena), the vision ports  or some other item that did not cause a health hit but damaged the module.

its also posible that you hit, did less than 1 % of the tanks health to the "main" health pool but competly wrecked something internaly(non explosive ammo hits for example)

Those are all zero damage critical hits.

The bug is zero damage NON critical hits. You penetrate, the shot goes through, you hear the penetrate sound, see the punch decal on the armor...and no HP is dealt and it's not a critical hit. (Usually critical hits occur in specific easily noticeable hit boxes).

If your HP damage is dealt instead as module damage, it's a critical hit and the game tells you so. That is very poor design, but it is working as intended.

When you deal no HP damage and no module damage, that's a bug.

Vorpal #56 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 19:49

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Note that I am not in any way talking about track damage. I'm sure we're all aware shooting the middle of the tracks will often deal no HP damage and not detrack your opponent. But it's easy to tell when this has happened, and when a zero damage penetrating hit or zero damage critical hit has occurred instead.

I consider the tracks absorbing giant shells that could destroy the tank in one shot, but the tracks don't even break, as also a bad game mechanic -- but I'm not aware of a quick easy fix, and I rate the zero damage bug / zero damage critical hits as both more obnoxious and detrimental to gameplay, and easier to fix.

UniverseBear #57 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 19:51

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Ya but at least it happens to everybody. You say you can't count the times you've not done damage to someone but think of all the times someone has probobly not killed you for the exact same reason. All though it is prety halarious when you hit a guy for no damage and you commander goes "That must of hurt." and your just like "you sure about that commander?"

Vorpal #58 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 19:59

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View PostUniverseBear, on Oct 17 2011 - 19:51, said:

Ya but at least it happens to everybody. You say you can't count the times you've not done damage to someone but think of all the times someone has probobly not killed you for the exact same reason.

The thing is, I usually don't notice those times. Probably no one does, if they are taking a lot of fire. So you have a mechanic which is REALLY ANNOYING when it hurts you and barely noticable when it helps you - the net effect of this mechanic is to add frustration to the player base.

It's one of the basic principles of game design: you want every player interaction you add to the game to have a net player satisfaction score: that is, the player who 'won' the encounter gets more 'fun' out of it than the player who lost the encounter gets 'antifun'. That's what keeps people coming back to your game: you may lose and feel a little bad, but next time you win and feel REALLY great! Overall experience: positive.

Now suppose you lost and felt abjectly horrible and when you won you felt 'meh'. Overall expeirence: negative. You're not going to keep coming back. I'm afraid that's the territory world of tanks is straying into.

RobertK #59 Posted Oct 17 2011 - 20:02

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View PostMaxMike, on Oct 17 2011 - 02:20, said:

Penetrating hits that do no damage that effects the tanks performance do in fact occur in real combat... but very rarely.

That and the constant damage to tanks cannons are things that need to be changed.


In real life, tanks don't have hit points. In real combat if you are the recipient of a penetrating shot, your tank is destroyed and you and your crew are red splotches on the lime green interior of your Sherman. Damage in real life is very "digital". It is either catastrophic or superficial. Sure, a track hit might not seem superficial, but it sure seems superficial to the crew members who bail out immediately because they know the next shot will end their lives.

Invoking realism is no way to deal with this issue. Playability is another matter, however.

Bob

ribtor #60 Posted Oct 18 2011 - 04:31

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I was looking at the old Sherman they have parked in my town.  I spent hours, but for the life of me I couldn't figure out where they had stored the hit points.

And now this guy tells me that:

Quote

In real life, tanks don't have hit points.

What a waste of time that was.  I could have sworn that somewhere they would have stored at least just one.




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