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Official zero damage critical/penetration hit answer and discussion thread


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Leaddog101 #481 Posted Apr 20 2012 - 22:05

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Also i get a lot of pens in the front and rear of tanks and no damage even the rear of turrets. Hope this problem is fixed soon!

RageHellion #482 Posted Apr 21 2012 - 02:37

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View PostRagnarIceblood, on Apr 20 2012 - 08:38, said:

Indeed.



You answered it yourself.
Myself skips posts that writes like that.



No, they issue bans when people break forum rules.



They issue bans because people dont get answeres? Good one.





Do you even know what a moderator is? Doesn't seem like it.



This makes no sense.

Maybe you need to get off of your little box and READ. Just saying. I have seen other great games go down due to FORUM MODERATORS who think they know EVERYTHING and only answer 1 or 2 minor issues and ignore the major issues. Sadukar has more than adequately explained why a FLANK hit will yield a GREAT NUMBER of these 0 damage penetration hits. but has NEVER....NEVER addressed Lower front Glacias penetrating OR Rear Turret OR Rear Hull penetrating Hits. I am talking hits that leave damage marks but subtract a grand total of 0 from the tanks HP. These shots are a REAL issue and are not RARE nor random occurrences. Your inability to grasp what I said means you need to step back and TRY to look past your own nose. Honestly if you don't understand maybe you need ask someone else.

Kemosobe #483 Posted Apr 21 2012 - 16:55

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View PostRageHellion, on Apr 21 2012 - 02:37, said:

Sadukar has more than adequately explained why a FLANK hit will yield a GREAT NUMBER of these 0 damage penetration hits.
Ya, but his explanation does not have any logic. You are still shooting and damaging the tank. I have always equated HP in this game to the overall effectiveness of the tank. If you shoot and completely de-track a tank in real life, the overall effectiveness of that tank drops dramatically. Now I understand that you can not have a tank stay de-tracked forever in this game, so they get repaired after so long, but they should still take at least some damage. I came up with a good solution for this module damage BS that was being thrown around before 0.7.2. For modules, make it so that the first time they are damaged, the tank takes 2% damage (number varying. Never came up with good numbers), and 1% damage for each consecutive time it is damaged. For crew members, the tank takes 1% damage for each crew member killed. If you revive a crew member and he is killed again, that is another 1% damage to the tank. Although the tank should take more damage since you have to actually get into the tank in order to kill the module/crew member, this would at least be a patch for the situation until Wargaming actually decides to start fixing this problem.

RageHellion #484 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 03:33

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View PostKemosobe, on Apr 21 2012 - 16:55, said:

Ya, but his explanation does not have any logic. You are still shooting and damaging the tank. I have always equated HP in this game to the overall effectiveness of the tank. If you shoot and completely de-track a tank in real life, the overall effectiveness of that tank drops dramatically. Now I understand that you can not have a tank stay de-tracked forever in this game, so they get repaired after so long, but they should still take at least some damage. I came up with a good solution for this module damage BS that was being thrown around before 0.7.2. For modules, make it so that the first time they are damaged, the tank takes 2% damage (number varying. Never came up with good numbers), and 1% damage for each consecutive time it is damaged. For crew members, the tank takes 1% damage for each crew member killed. If you revive a crew member and he is killed again, that is another 1% damage to the tank. Although the tank should take more damage since you have to actually get into the tank in order to kill the module/crew member, this would at least be a patch for the situation until Wargaming actually decides to start fixing this problem.

I don't ask for others to have Logic. It is a rare ephemeral thing. I only wished to point out he has beat that horse to death and back again. I wanted to bring out he hasn't Addressed 0 damage hits that could never have even come close to hitting the tracks or ANY known view port. I understand I am no world renowned tank expert. But I am a fair gamer, and understand logic and the import of keeping your player base happy. Some requests are easier to field than others, obviously, but the difficult ones should not be ignored. And HONEST answer of "I do not know", or " I am not sure" would go a long way to keeping people calmer and more able to understand any point you bring up. If you cant be honest then you shouldn't host posts like this.

ohsi #485 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 04:20

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View PostKemosobe, on Apr 21 2012 - 16:55, said:

Although the tank should take more damage since you have to actually get into the tank in order to kill the module/crew member, this would at least be a patch for the situation until Wargaming actually decides to start fixing this problem.

Actually, you don't need a penetration at all to kill/wound a crew member. And I'm talking about real life too.
One hit with an hiper velocity kinetic proyectile, such as APDSFS, can actually remove the turret from its ring, and injury or even kill (if unlucky) a crew member without penetrating, due to displacement of internal components.
An HE round can stun a crew member for several minutes, cause severe injuries or even kill one or many, also without penetration.

Just for information purposes.

muteman454 #486 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 14:31

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Here's an example of the zero damage stupidity. I'm in my IS-4,rolling down the street happy as a clam. A wild IS-3 has a appeared! IS-3 uses BL-9 AP round! It's super effective! IS-4 uses S-70 AP round! It's not very effective... IS-3 tries to run away! But it fails! IS-4 uses S-70 AP round! It's not very effective... Okay. So two AP rounds were fired into his flat side armor, both penetrated, neither does damage. HAD THESE SHOTS DONE DAMAGE he would've possibly been down to about 500-700 health by then. But instead I sat there, 1300 health from a shot an IS-3 fired, two wasted shells, and not a very happy camper. It's definitely "working as intended" if the intention is to piss off the players.

Grunt_Dog #487 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 16:37

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This has gotten way way out of hand......This game has become as close to being broken due to this as it has in a long time....   Players need some consistent way to measure, incur, and occur damage..... Starting to get a very unbalanced feel to this screwed mechanic.  They better turn this back down again soon... Who could reasonably say that this isn't occurring far more than a month ago... I am frankly getting disgusted with it. I have defended WG so many times in the past about their mechanics... lost my patience with this one.   FIX this now....At least put the roll % and indicators back to prior state.

MrSpleen #488 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 16:50

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WG just fix the f'ing problem and you'll see less of above complaints from me and others!

I also have a theory on why this occurs and I think its wg's way of making sure a team looses when its there turn to loose for example if your meant to loose (your team looses but its fairly close all way through, they will make sure shots that should be really good hits doing loads of damage will pen for no damage instead) hence getting 0 damage shots on machine gun ports at point blank 5 times in a row with comments like WE HIT THEM HARD, and your sat there going really you think so?

Sorry rambling but very pissed off!  :angry:

Oh and almost 17k battles and only needing 4 more tanks to have unlocked all top tier tanks on all trees (grinding not converting) means I have seen alot of this.

SportyGuy #489 Posted Apr 23 2012 - 04:39

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I found a solution to this problem.  I play the T95 a lot more now.  When you add up all the no damage shots with the usual bounces and ricochets my survival has gone up to 41% in that tank.   B)

Pave_Low #490 Posted Apr 23 2012 - 05:45

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I have to say, with over 10,000 games under my belt, whatever is going on with no damage crits is something new as of 7.2.  It is extremely frustrating, as to the point of game breaking.

I am certainly used to strangeness and flukiness.  I consider that part of the game, that a shot is bounced or does no damage because of blind luck.  But now it's too frequent.  Shots to the backs of turrets, centers of the hull, all of them easily penetrating and doing no damage.  It's really disheartening against tanks like the T-50-2 which are difficult to hit in the first place and should be appropriately fragile.  Instead of taking out the scout, or even just tracking it, you can hit it with a 200+ pen 400+ damage gun and do absolutely nothing.

SportyGuy #491 Posted Apr 23 2012 - 15:16

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View PostPave_Low, on Apr 23 2012 - 05:45, said:

I have to say, with over 10,000 games under my belt, whatever is going on with no damage crits is something new as of 7.2.  It is extremely frustrating, as to the point of game breaking.

I am certainly used to strangeness and flukiness.  I consider that part of the game, that a shot is bounced or does no damage because of blind luck.  But now it's too frequent.  Shots to the backs of turrets, centers of the hull, all of them easily penetrating and doing no damage.  It's really disheartening against tanks like the T-50-2 which are difficult to hit in the first place and should be appropriately fragile.  Instead of taking out the scout, or even just tracking it, you can hit it with a 200+ pen 400+ damage gun and do absolutely nothing.
Welcome to the club of veterans with over 10K battles that has noticed the differences in 7.2.  I can deal with the change in the message after the OP has pointed it out but I'm having a hard time with the increased chance of missing the target.

Grunt_Dog #492 Posted Apr 23 2012 - 15:30

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I could care less about the damage voice indicator?   What is really game breaking for me is the significant increase in ND crits....Don't tell me it isn't...after playing this game damn near everyday for two years.....   Don't even go there...it is happening at least twice as often...I am even beginning to question to whom it is occurring.... I am not feeling like I am taking more critical damage.....  I have defended WG so many times on these forums about mechanics....   Fix this now!

Scubafishtank #493 Posted Apr 23 2012 - 18:24

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Too complicated! Whenever you hit a tank just have a trained monkey or hamster roll some dice on the ground and if you roll snake eyes your crew catches on fire.

Keifomofutu #494 Posted Apr 23 2012 - 18:33

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View PostScubafishtank, on Apr 23 2012 - 18:24, said:

Too complicated! Whenever you hit a tank just have a trained monkey or hamster roll some dice on the ground and if you roll snake eyes your crew catches on fire.
Just your crew not the rest of the tank?  That'll teach them to get drunk in the tank!

RageHellion #495 Posted Apr 24 2012 - 02:19

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Still no Response to the issue of a T-28 with the 85mm Gun doing 0 damage after 4 obvious pens to the back of a KV turret?

tsefnig #496 Posted Apr 24 2012 - 14:25

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:Smile-playing:

View PostRageHellion, on Apr 24 2012 - 02:19, said:

Still no Response to the issue of a T-28 with the 85mm Gun doing 0 damage after 4 obvious pens to the back of a KV turret?

And you will never get an answer. Because if they told the truth about how the game/battles really works, they would have maybe 10 players left!

DrewDoughty #497 Posted Apr 24 2012 - 14:44

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How can I get a ''penetration'' shot with HE against a frontal Maus?

SportyGuy #498 Posted Apr 24 2012 - 15:16

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View PostThekebecer, on Apr 24 2012 - 14:44, said:

How can I get a ''penetration'' shot with HE against a frontal Maus?
I don't know how many sided dice is used to determine your shot's effectiveness.  It appears you got a rare roll.  Or, are you asking how?

DrewDoughty #499 Posted Apr 24 2012 - 15:40

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View PostSportyGuy, on Apr 24 2012 - 15:16, said:

I don't know how many sided dice is used to determine your shot's effectiveness.  It appears you got a rare roll.  Or, are you asking how?

I know the ''Crit Hit'' meesage as been remplaced by ''peneration'' but its weird when you shot HE, probably destroy and external module and hear ''penetration'', and you know the enemy have a lot oo much armor to be able to pen it with HE

SportyGuy #500 Posted Apr 24 2012 - 17:20

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View PostThekebecer, on Apr 24 2012 - 15:40, said:

I know the ''Crit Hit'' meesage as been remplaced by ''peneration'' but its weird when you shot HE, probably destroy and external module and hear ''penetration'', and you know the enemy have a lot oo much armor to be able to pen it with HE
Got'cha!