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Penetration, bounce, ricochet


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spartan1974 #101 Posted Dec 30 2010 - 04:34

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View PostOverlord, on Aug 31 2010 - 13:27, said:

The purpose of this topic is to gather strange statistics, like: "fired at a MS-1 with 203mm shell and didn't penetrate ..." or, otherwise "Leichttraktor penetrated a IS-7 from the front".

What do you need to make a report:

If you had such accident in game, make the screenshot as soon as possible to show the situation where the issue occurred. Then, using your screen shot, try to draw where you were aiming at on the target tank and where the shell hit. Supply your screen with a brief description of the accident: tank model, gun model, shell type, what sound message (Just dinged them, Ricochet ect) you got when the target was hit, how much of the Hitpoint Percentage the target lost from your shot, was it critical damage or not.

It would be better to test penetration in training battles (there are not so hot and furious) and post here your results in tables and with screenshots.

All the unnecessary things that don't belong to this topic (off-topic, discussions, badly made reports) are to be deleted.

Let's make the game better together. Neither we nor you are not fond of game bugs.

PS: You can upload vidoes as well.

this is t29 after the nerfing of the gun you know dispersion from 0,35 to 0,37 ok first pic is from 300 ap round
the second pic i fired from 349 m and look where it hits actually if i fired from 350m above 1 to 4 round goes to target
this         

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spartan1974 #102 Posted Dec 30 2010 - 04:38

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View PostSPARTAN1974, on Dec 30 2010 - 04:34, said:

this is t29 after the nerfing of the gun you know dispersion from 0,35 to 0,37 ok first pic is from 300 ap round
the second pic i fired from 349 m and look where it hits actually if i fired from 350m above 1 to 4 round goes to target
this was fired from 350 Attachmentshot_010.jpg Attachmentshot_001.jpg

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  • Attached File   shot_010.jpg   126.18K


DKDC #103 Posted Dec 30 2010 - 13:40

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Yesterday when I played three games in a row with my Stug III and several games with a SU 85 I had the problem, that many shots were indicated as critical hits, another one like this.... etc but it caused absolutely no dmg.
This happened in the past as well. For example an IS came up the hill, I shot his tracks 4 times, got critical hit, penetration etc. no tracks were damaged and no damage was taken. Close distance, maybe 20m. I used the 85mm upgraded gun of this tank. The result was a one shot kill by IS.
I do not want to complain about getting a one shot, it just makes me wonder whether the messages are bugs or errors or implemented as some kind of distraction. Would be nice to turn no dmg shots into ricochet, bounced or maybe add s.th. like " this shot caused no dmg " , " penetration but throwing stones at rocks is not working ".
The next thing is that even if the full circle ( area of where the bullet can hot the target ) is on the target and at close distance, my bullet will miss it. It happened a few times so far. Less than 10 times. Stationary vehicle, enemy stationary too. It should be impossible to miss in a close combat like 30 - 50m.
Happened to my Stug III vs. Panzer IV.

Thanks :)

Rumbaugh #104 Posted Dec 31 2010 - 00:51

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Just did a battle in my PzKpwf IV fighting lots of M2 Medium tanks, Bt-7, and another PzKpwf IV. At least 10 of my 10.5 cm AP shots on the smaller tanks did absolutely nothing. I mean as though they went thru them or my shots just disappeared. Each time I was expecting a easy kill.

digitusx82 #105 Posted Dec 31 2010 - 11:27

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View PostDKDC, on Dec 30 2010 - 13:40, said:

Yesterday when I played three games in a row with my Stug III and several games with a SU 85 I had the problem, that many shots were indicated as critical hits, another one like this.... etc but it caused absolutely no dmg.
This happened in the past as well. For example an IS came up the hill, I shot his tracks 4 times, got critical hit, penetration etc. no tracks were damaged and no damage was taken.
The next thing is that even if the full circle ( area of where the bullet can hot the target ) is on the target and at close distance, my bullet will miss it. It happened a few times so far. Less than 10 times. Stationary vehicle, enemy stationary too. It should be impossible to miss in a close combat like 30 - 50m.
The same for me, with both my StuG III (armed with the long-barreled 7.5cm) and SU-85 (armed with the 107mm).

Rumbaugh #106 Posted Jan 04 2011 - 04:07

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Well, this is getting to be an everyday thing. Sign into the game, sign into the bug reports.

Just finished a battle in which I was in an SU-85 with an 85mm DS5 Shot an AP round (150mm penetration, 200 damage) in the rear of a M4A3 Sherman with 38mm rear armor and didn't kill him. 50 yrds away

You know what killed me? A f** A-20

Rumbaugh #107 Posted Jan 05 2011 - 01:27

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Was an SU-5 152 gun. A-20 with 20-25mm front armor came up to  the front of my spg. i shot and hit him point blank (25 yrds) Did not kill him. Did  92% damage.

Rumbaugh #108 Posted Jan 05 2011 - 23:24

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1/5/11

Hit a BT-7 3 times in the front (20mm) with a Pnzkfw III/IV and 75mm AP and he didn't die. Hit notification each time.

Hit a T34 in the side (45mm) with a 122 mm round (61mm penetration) from an SU-85 and didn't die. Even though he was tracked, he disappeared from view. When he was repaired he turned and killed me with 2 shots. (not in view)

Hit an SU-85 (45mm front) in a KV with a gold penetration round (185mm) got 65% damage

1/9/11

Was in a pzkfw IV and was hit by a T34/85 from the rear. That should've killed me but didn't. So I turned to have my front thickest armor facing him. he killed me with the 2nd shot. I shot him 3 times 75mm AP

SnakeTheFox #109 Posted Jan 10 2011 - 16:28

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I am convinced the Jagdtiger gun mantlet is bugged. I am getting out of games where I am consistently losing my gun multiple times, in one game I lost it 5 times in under 60 seconds. I can't see "holes" on my tank so it's not worth taking a screenshot, but I suspect this is because they're phasing right through the gun mantlet and into my front hull. Now, I don't know what the JT gun mantlet thickness is, but I shouldn't be losing my gun to short 88mm guns that consistently, they don't even have the basic 250mm penetration. I hate to shout "Russian bias", but I've never seen a single round penetrate a Objects mantlet. Rounds bounce off it like crazy, but apparently the developers think the JT mantlet doesn't exist.

Furthermore, I am very consistently bouncing T-54's frontally with the Jagdtigers last gun. At 260mm~ of penetration, it should not be bouncing 120mm of sloped armor just because it is sloped. The penetration values you get are from German tests that are against 30mm of slope, and from what I can tell that is about the angle of a T-54's frontal armor. So this should not be happening with such frequency.

And another thing, what are the full armor values in-game for the Jagdtiger? I know it's not fully 250mm frontal, because if that was the case I wouldn't be getting so consistently penetrated by tanks with >250mm penetration guns (see: anything that isn't a BL-10 or 128mm L/61). Everything from the IS-3's stock 175mm penetration gun to the T-54's similarly penetrating 100mm stock gun rip right through my frontal armor consistently. Even overlooking the camo bug/failures, the JT is very, very bugged.

BraveAngel #110 Posted Jan 14 2011 - 17:12

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Serverbuggy today ? Second fight now where on Kind of Tank is unbreakable. First match was Ruinberg there was two IS on enemy side they didnt take only 1% damage from full group (up to Tiger2) i hitted one three times with 122mm Cannon (KV-3) in his back and only was he gets is *BING*. Second match was Lakeville, there was an Pz IV unbreakable for my 122mm Gun. Normaly they took 1 or MAXIMUM 2 hits to get down. :(

Xivilai #111 Posted Jan 14 2011 - 18:44

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It happened to me several times. I shoot like jagdpanther and crew said ( we hit them hard ) but the amount or percentage of life was the same.

And another thing I want to brought up, German tanks are rely handy-capt to that point that looks like intentional discrimination of that race.

I would like to see any other tank by any other race that is so heavily handy-capt.

This is not fair.

Thanks For Listening.

BraveAngel #112 Posted Jan 16 2011 - 23:28

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Last Battle i had a 1 vs 1 against a t54 me was a Panther2 with the 88mm Gun (200mm Penetration) I SHOOTED HIM FOUR TIMES in the side and it happens nothing not a Rekoge or a Bing or something like that. Only his Icon blinked Short. HELLO ?!? 200mm Penetration and nothing happens with hits in the Side ??? Sorry but the Balance under the Tier9 meds is a bad joke. T54 hits Panther2 with every Gun frontal and Panther2 can sit there and die because only the 10.5 has a chance ? -.-

JDA #113 Posted Jan 17 2011 - 03:22

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Date:  1/16/11
Map:  Sand River

Target:  Tiger I with Porscheturm

Gun used:  10.5 cm KwK 46 L68
Ammo used:  Standard AP
Range:  Point blank; my gun was literally inside his turret.
Message:  It bounced off!
Angle:  Dead on; I was aiming at him, he was aiming at me.

Minimum penetration on round used is 169mm.  Front turret of tiger I porscheturm is 100mm.

Note:  I had a damaged gun.  I was under the impression that gun damage only affected accuracy.  Does it affect penetration as well?

LeoPhone #114 Posted Jan 19 2011 - 17:13

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jagdpanther 203mm penetration gun fired at rear turret of T32. no angle, point blank range. didn't penetrate.
T32's rear turret armor has either  76mm 152mm thickness.

Rumbaugh #115 Posted Jan 23 2011 - 02:14

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In JagdPz IV with 75mm Stuk 42/L70 gun fired 2 AP rounds into an A20 on the side (armor 20/25) and he didn't die. Arty direct shot killed him.

EDIT: This is really getting to be some real B*** Sh**.   In a VK3601. Fired 3 88mm AP rounds into the side of an SU-5 and he didn't die. Also shot 1 88mm round into an A-20 and he didn't die.

Ya I'd have to say either the game is really f* up or there is a hvy Russian bias.

GenGrant #116 Posted Jan 23 2011 - 06:12

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Recently I've noticed more and more HE round's bouncing. Some even have bounced at point blank range. My question is what type of HE rounds are these? Are they Point-Detonate? Cause if so any impact, not matter how small, should be setting off the rounds. This is happening to me more and more. As it is right now, AP round's and HE's round pretty much bounce the same amount. Can we get some clarification on the type of HE round it is?

And yes I understand the thing about deflection due to sloped armor. My issue is I'm either bouncing the rounds or its saying the shot went through, which the latter should even be the case. The purpose of the lower penetration is to ensure the shell explodes either on the outside or inside..not go all the way through.

Rumbaugh #117 Posted Jan 28 2011 - 03:54

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In a JagdPz IV TD. Shot 5 times with 75mm 138/135 AP rounds into the side of a VK 3601 (H) with 60/80 side armor about 150 yds away before killing him. Then shot 3 side shots into a Panther ( 50/60 armor), same rounds, same distance and didn't die. He killed me.

Now, the rounds I used show as penetrating at a minimum, 104mm of armor. So my first shot should have went into his tank, through his 60mm hull armor and killed him. Whatever the hit points are. This I think is what is a major flaw in this game. The mm penetration or damage do not jive with the hit point loss. Unless the developers are saying that even though a shell penetrates the tank, still only so much hit points are deleted. If that's the case then the data accompanying the shell and gun are worthless. Need to change it to "hit point damage". So then in my scenario, the 7.5cm Armour (misspelled cause the other shell is spelled armor) Piercing Shell Pzgr 39 L  must cause 152 hit point damage. (760 / 5)  I don't know, maybe this is a way to keep the game going and players happy by not dying with one shot. (unless you have a much larger gun)

EDIT:

Is penetration not the key but Damage? Notice it lists that AP shell at causing 101 - 169 damage. This falls into the range I calculated. That would mean the penetration figures are just for show and mean nothing.

ak2047 #118 Posted Jan 28 2011 - 13:31

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After the launch of OPEN BETA, HE hit got the message of "We can't penetrate their armour" or "We just ding them"!

Rumbaugh #119 Posted Jan 29 2011 - 03:38

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Was in a M4A3E8 Sherman with a 76mm M1A2 gun. Shot a KV-3 >10 times with AP rounds. He got down to 4% and then stopped. Nothing would kill him after that. After he killed me there were 3 more tanks that shot him both with AP and HE. He never went down below 4% and killed all the tanks. Even the player in the KV-3 to his credit said afterwards " I have no idea what just happened".

EDIT:

On a second note, what is up with the Russian A20? It only has 20mm armor but in battle after battle i see it take multiple hits. Seems like another instance of game siding to Russian armor.

Sickocrow #120 Posted Jan 30 2011 - 16:57

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Got one shotted by an A20 light tank, and I was piloted a fully upgraded PzIII medium.

* 50-75m range.
* Shot each other in the side. I was stationery, he was moving.
* Both at 100% health when we opened fire.
* My shot hit his rear left flank, and dropped him to 82%
* He shot back approx 2 seconds later whilst on the move. Hit me somewhere in my left side, and instantly killed me.
* I was not hit by another vehicle, or artillery.

Going off game stats, and even with max gunner skills and upgrades.  There is absolutely no way a A20 should be able to 'One Shot' a PzIII.

A20 biggest gun is a 76mm L-11 with 110/110/156 Damage, and 68/100/38 Penetration stats.  Clearly the gun can penetrate the PzIII 30mm side, but the damage just isn't there for a 'One Shot'.




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