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Penetration, bounce, ricochet


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YoukaiMori #21 Posted Sep 26 2010 - 21:28

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8.8cm Upgraded one that has over 200 penetration, on the JagdPanther, doesn't seem to penetrate the KV from the side/front. Turret shots actually do penetrate. Back shots do as well.

Has a very hard time penetrating the T-44 even though the T-44 only has like 100mm armor.

Rarely penetrates the IS-3 or IS-4 from the side, I have yet to penetrate them from the front.

Not too sure about the IS-7.

Cmdr_Psycho #22 Posted Sep 26 2010 - 21:35

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VK3002DB / Panther with 75 or 88 vs Leo ...

bounces a hell of lot shells and "we just dinged them" on the side/front.

88 vs leo bounce/ding? while he can 'hit you hard' (2-10% dmg with HE-Ammo front/side-hits on DB / Panther) is some kind of .... strange ;D ^^

BallsOFSteeel #23 Posted Sep 28 2010 - 16:36

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After this new update (lang pack) i was playing with my Su-85 td and i was shooting a KV in the back the pen cross was green i shot him 4 times all hits and every time no damage my crewmen voice said "we nailed him bad" so i gave up on shooting that kv and instead i shot a t44 and the crewmen again said "critical hit" but no damage when shot from the side. Now heres the funny part the t44 rushes me and i shoot him once in the front and from 100% he goes 18% , i was the only guy alive in the match on my team and whats more weired is that my gun the 76mm S-54 shouldn't pen the front of a t44.

Aronax #24 Posted Sep 28 2010 - 20:55

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With Ferdi (128mm gun) i had many horrible games after last language pack, even before KV family, IS family and PZIV bounced/absorbed many shots, but now it's very annoying.
Could it be that instead when rolling random for penetration (172 to 320 with this particular gun and ammo),
it rolls from 0 to 320 instead of 172 to 320 (yes i know it's prolly [ penetration = roll % penetration_diff + min_penetration]  , where penetration_diff = max_penetration - min_penetartion,
but in current patch server does roll % max_penetration on roll or same problem on damage instead of penetration).
This happens to me too on JagdPanter/T-34-85/t-43.

runn #25 Posted Sep 29 2010 - 08:02

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Posting to confirm the "penetration without any damage" bug. Both on my Tiger2 and VK4502 (88 and 105 mm guns with AP loaded) I get the audio confirmation ("Penetration" "We've hit them hard" and so on) and the flashing icon yet they lose 0 HP. This has happened on all tiers and classes of tanks; annoying as it happens quite often (roughly 1 in 10 penetrating shots).

Arkhell #26 Posted Sep 30 2010 - 11:54

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getting a lot of we hit them hard, another one like that should finish them, and thats goda hurt msg's on my stug3 with L70 gun on anything from pz 2 to IS tanks and 99% of the time they take no dmg. even shot a marder 2 in the back with explosive shell once and i got the msg we nailed them hard and he was still at 100%... lol a AP shell from that gun in the back should blow up a marder 2 but nooooo ;)

FangTwo #27 Posted Sep 30 2010 - 17:28

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Yeah this was happening to me all day yesterday, and it just happened again. I shot an IS-3, and the crew said "Enemy armor is hit!", and it did zero damage. I would have a decent screenshot of it, but looking at the picture, the screenshot is badly screwed up.

EDIT: It just happened twice more in a game, this time against a KV-3. And just for information I'm using the top tier 122mm gun on the IS with AP rounds mainly. And this time I have screenshots. The second screenshot doesn't have me aimed properly cause I was still in battle, but I hit him dead center from this direct angle.
        
        
Also as a point of interest, I mentioned the glitch to the KV-3 driver (JesusHChrist) after he died, and he didn't believe me. He seemed to think that I hadn't even FIRED the two shots that hit him, even though they should have showed up on his screen when he got hit. He seemed under the impression the only shots I had that didn't damage were a ding (I did have one) and two shots that I missed (I didn't actually miss any). It's like the hits that didn't damage him didn't even register from his POV.

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Shiznyte #28 Posted Oct 06 2010 - 10:12

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Sorry I don't have a screenshot but...  Today in one Lakeville game I failed to do damage to a VK3601 shooting straight into his main gun on the turret 3 times in a row.  Was trying to knock his gun out.  Each time my crewman said "That went all the way through".  His symbol above him lit up like I did penetrate, but no damage.  

Nither of us were moving... I was cowering at the bottom of a hill in the valley on thier side praying for backup and he was tracked less than 75 meters right in front of me at thier end of the valley at the entrance.  Zoomed all the way in, in sniper mode his gun filled my targeting circle.

If I remember right I was able to do damage the very first time I shot his turret.  There was a penetration hole on the left side next to the gun.  After that the other 3 didn't do anything to him.

I was in the VK3002(DB) with the 88mm with AP ammo.

Peace,
Shiznyte

Aronax #29 Posted Oct 06 2010 - 15:03

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I'm sick of not being able to penetrate and do any damage to IS-4s with JagdTiger. Seriously this is becoming so frustrating,
that shit has 160/160/120 armor, and i "can't penetrate" it with gun that goes through 250 easy (same gun on ferdi 128mm first one, smallest roll on penetration is 172).
Just now in a game i was shooting at 2 IS-4s, i hit both of em to the body (no bounce), first 4 times second 3 times, and guess what, We didn't penetrate their armor &
no damage done what so ever. On the other hand whenever they had a chance to shoot at me they would remove almost 1/3 of my hp easy, though 250mm frontal armor on every shot.
Fix it already, hate seeing retards in IS-4s winning every game because their tank is invincible atm...

Chillin1248 #30 Posted Oct 07 2010 - 23:24

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I have noticed that the IS,IS3,IS4 and IS7 have a habit of bouncing shells way too much, even at close range with my 105mm Tiger 2 gun with AP and aiming at "soft spots" like the back of the turret or tank itself.

Aslain #31 Posted Oct 09 2010 - 08:58

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I was driving my fully upgraded Panther with 100% crew and their 2 extra abilities etc. The map was Prokhorovka. So while in combat with Tiger suddenly got hit by something (hard to say what was that, I heard no sound, and saw no visuals). It was like im in 100%, next second I have 30 hitpoints left, which is like 1% and got killed a few seconds later.

I have no proof of it, maybe it was artillery, maybe graphic/sound glich but I've played like 2000 battles since closed beta and this happened first time to me.

Hazardz #32 Posted Oct 10 2010 - 00:10

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View PostAronax, on Oct 06 2010 - 15:03, said:

I'm sick of not being able to penetrate and do any damage to IS-4s with JagdTiger. Seriously this is becoming so frustrating,
that shit has 160/160/120 armor, and i "can't penetrate" it with gun that goes through 250 easy (same gun on ferdi 128mm first one, smallest roll on penetration is 172).
Just now in a game i was shooting at 2 IS-4s, i hit both of em to the body (no bounce), first 4 times second 3 times, and guess what, We didn't penetrate their armor &
no damage done what so ever. On the other hand whenever they had a chance to shoot at me they would remove almost 1/3 of my hp easy, though 250mm frontal armor on every shot.
Fix it already, hate seeing retards in IS-4s winning every game because their tank is invincible atm...


Yes it is very difficult to penetrate an IS4 and ofc IS7 front armour with JT in my experience as well. The Russian IS tanks are extremely sloped and increase their effective armour values by at least x2. I usually switch to HE against IS4/IS7 which while it does less dmg will always at least do some. Really take the biscuit when I bounced of rear of IS7 due to the imbalance of slope implementation with a 270 penetration weapon against 60mm or armour.

I also find they can penetrate the front of a JT very easily which is not hard at all if you know where to aim.

bonez321 #33 Posted Oct 11 2010 - 02:59

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my issue is that i keep getting slaughtered by leo's because for some unknown reason the 76mm L-11 on my A20 won't penetrate their armor, at all, anywhere(and seem to get ricochets with HE rounds).

yet, i can drop some serous damage to a tiger1/2 and most other larger tanks.

NEMESIS #34 Posted Oct 11 2010 - 11:39

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Bounced off front of A20 at 5-10 meteres range(gun was not in the enemy tank) and with the 88 AP round on a King tiger and his first shot took my gun out after me firing,also read on the forums of people with is7 bouncing off the A20.
Also had another battle in my KT where i` bounced with the 88 Ap round at around 10-15 meters and i bounced 6 of 8 shots from all directions front side and rear while the is3 only bounced once on me :(
Also with Is7 i got bounces off Kv`s and back of leopard`s and even pz4.

PS:It`s almost impossible to get screenshots of this since is in the heat of the battle and you never realize it until its too late to take pics maybe you need to make it easier to take pics like having a button like ~ or 1 to tank screenshots instead of the ctrl+prinscreen combo which just wastes valuable time.
I also confirm the ''bug'' with we hit them hard and 0% damage and i seem to be getting that quite frequent maybe its just a matter of wrong sound or something. :)

Homer_J #35 Posted Oct 11 2010 - 21:43

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The devs have explained that any shot which hits at less then 10deg will bounce, no matter how thin the armour or how big the shell.

Lots of slopes on the Leo and A20 means lots of chances of bounces.

FangTwo #36 Posted Oct 12 2010 - 02:25

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For the first time in about a week I just had a round FULL of those no damage glitches. I hit 8 out of 13 rounds fired, and technically speaking only 3 of them did any damage. First I somehow dinged the underside of a KV-3's front armor with the IS's tier VIII 122. The next two rounds hit and said "We hit them hard!" but no damage was dealt. The next shot did the same thing to a VK(DB). The next two rounds tracked the VK for no damage. Next round killed him. The next round I fired hit an SU-8 directly and it said it went right through but again, zero damage. Please fix this damn bug. It's getting old.

Edit: Just happened again. Fired two rounds, both hit, neither did any damage. Didn't even track the tanks this time.

zmeul #37 Posted Oct 12 2010 - 13:31

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T-44 with 100mm gun vs MAUS ding but doing damage
video: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=312CyGaEnAI

Sniper061 #38 Posted Oct 13 2010 - 18:26

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Copied from another post I made:

I just went through two games and encountered this problem both times. The first game it was purely accidental but I was able to recreate the problem in the very next game.

My tank:

ISU-152
Gun: BL-10 152mm
Ammo: AP


Target tank:

KV
Second turret


First match, I shot a KV three times in a row from the front from a range about about 100-150m causing no HP damage. Since he was at some distance, I aimed for the joint between the turret and the hull so if the shot went high, it would go into the turret or low it would go into the tank body. First shot registered as a solid hit but resulted in no visible damage to the KV besides him stopping (possibly took out his engine). Second and third shots I aimed at his hull area with the same result. The fourth shot (aimed at the turret) is what finished him off.

In the follow-up game, I saw an enemy KV and was able to set myself up in the same situation. 155m, straight on. The first shot was aimed at the lower half of the turret. It hit and caused no visible damage. KV continued to move. Second shot took place at about 120m using auto-aim and also resulted in no visible damage although my crew indicated "That hurt him badly". Said KV and his friends destroyed me before I could land a third shot.

juz #39 Posted Oct 13 2010 - 19:03

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View PostChillin1248, on Oct 07 2010 - 23:24, said:

I have noticed that the IS,IS3,IS4 and IS7 have a habit of bouncing shells way too much, even at close range with my 105mm Tiger 2 gun with AP and aiming at "soft spots" like the back of the turret or tank itself.



I drive an IS3 (122mm) and feel this way about Tigers and Tiger II's, last night and just now I bounced shots at point blank range. As in our 2 tanks were less then a meter apart and I bounced 2 shots back to back one of the bounces was off the engine bay...

That is realistically impossible and huge game design flaw

SylvrDragon #40 Posted Oct 17 2010 - 22:11

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The other day I was firing at point blank with my 107mm ZiS-6 on my KV into a Tiger. We were no more than 10 yards apart, if even that, and I fired 3 shells straight into his front and all 3 failed to penetrate. Now I know it's a Tiger and it should be tough, but it has 100mm of front armor and the penetration range for the 107 is 117-217, which makes the minimum penetration rating 17 higher than the Tiger's front armor. I would understand this happening if we were at range. But we were in each others faces!




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