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Chouïgui Pass


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The_Chieftain #1 Posted Nov 27 2011 - 01:12

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Today marks the anniversary of the first clash between US and German tanks (but not tankers, as US crews had fought in British lend-lease vehicles prior), which occurred in the mountains of Tunisia on Thanksgiving day, 26 November, 1942, at the western exit of the Tine River Valley known as Chouïgui Pass.

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currahee1sg #2 Posted Nov 27 2011 - 01:34

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Wonderful read.  Thanks for the research.

David_90539 #3 Posted Nov 27 2011 - 01:45

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more stuff i didnt know before.  nice job, +1 :Smile_great:

Teufelswerk #4 Posted Nov 27 2011 - 01:59

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Great article, keep em coming please.

the_moidart #5 Posted Nov 27 2011 - 02:44

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Interesting subversion of the usual narrative of 'smart German's, dumb Americans' often accepted by people talking about this part of the war. Pound for pound the Allies were at a severe disadvantage but more then evened it out with preparation of good positions, surprise, and daring on the part of those gmc's.

This should serve as a warning to people who fantasize about the immortality of 'superior' machinery. The Pz4 with L43 was the hottest tank in North Africa and fell to light tanks armed with 37mm door knockers.

Good read, thanks.

StBernardus_BierTrappist #6 Posted Nov 27 2011 - 03:04

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Good article, interesting and informative. More please.

I look forward to the tiered patch when when IV's and VI's are maxed out. This early to early mid part of the war with focus on the mid 70's mm medium to high velocity guns was going to be what I thought WoT was about. With a handful of Kt's in certain situations. My surprise in this game when the PzIV was way down, when the tiger was always looking over its shoulder. We all quickly adapt to the game's structure though.

As the previous poster points out - for WoT I hate the people who give up and leave when they see the odds are stacked against them, or suicide. The best games are not those when you steam roll the enemy, the best games are when you overcome a perceived stronger foe. WoT reflects more about personal character than people think.

The ability to think on your feet, to recognise your limitations and adapt, that is what makes a powerful army. The German army with the majority of its army officers working up form NCO made for the best troops going upwards. Israel did the same too. American and Commonwealth troops who on a daily basis were innovative, as we see in this article, could adapt and overcome technologically superior forces. (A lesson or the American military today.)

For me the 2 new fast mediums in WoT offer a tactical extra in the maps. Artillery spotter if not hunter, but also a threat to higher tiers doing similar work  to the T54, 59, Panther 2, E50. Makes a more dynamic and therefore interesting game.

janusz511 #7 Posted Nov 27 2011 - 05:19

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nice job on suming it up i was very impresed

JakeEDogge #8 Posted Nov 27 2011 - 05:59

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Recently finished reading "The end in Africa" by Alan Moorhead about the fighting in Tunisia. First Published in 1943 it is a fascinating read as the author obviously didn't have access to all the information we have today but did have the advantage of actually being there. You might find a snippet from the foreword of interest.
"In North Africa there was no clear-cut military issue as there was in the desert, or indeed through most of the Middle East campaigns. The Army in Tuisia and Algeria fought amongst civilians and its movements were directed just as much from the State Department in Washington and the Foreign Office in London as from General Eisenhower's headquarters.
Then, too, we were not fighting for our lives or the protection of our homes but for the victory and the political reorganisation of Europe. For the first time we engaged in outright offense-not defense-and the politicians emerged from their long hibernation which began with the fall of France in 1940
..... If this book leaves you with the impression that we succeeded militarily in Africa and failed politically, then I can only say that it seemed so to quite a number of us who were there at the time, and it seems even more so now. August 1943

CH3CHOH #9 Posted Nov 27 2011 - 13:08

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thats my country , i live there :)

jamie7575 #10 Posted Nov 27 2011 - 14:01

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Thank you for another interesting read. The North African campaign was a pivotal time in US tank design. This is where the they found out that they would need more than the Lee and half-track mounted howitzers to be able to dent the Germans. Read any of Patton's biographies to really get a glimpse of the frustration of the officer corps with regards to inferior machines. Alot of well planned operations fell apart when the US tanks would "brew up"after 1 shot. (Except for Kesserine Pass which was a lethal combo of bad stategy and equipment.) Also, it is interesting to note that the Col. Waters mentioned here would later be captured by the Germans and held as a POW. During the Battle of the Bulge, if I remember correctly, Gen Patton was accused of risking the lives of too many Americans to save his son-in-law. He organized a fast column to race far behind German lines in order to liberated a POW camp. Fortunately for Ol' Blood and Guts the column made it all the way there and back successfully.

Shinikake #11 Posted Nov 27 2011 - 14:46

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Fantastic job, keep them coming!

2_minutes_hate #12 Posted Nov 27 2011 - 18:15

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Nice article, Good job.

Hull Down keep 'em coming.

atsiv #13 Posted Nov 27 2011 - 18:58

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nice.didn`t know that was the first engagement with german armor.thought Kasserine pass was.learn something new every day.kudo`s chief

Jakeworkz #14 Posted Nov 27 2011 - 21:47

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Why poor italians like me get destroyed easily :(

KamikazeSenpai #15 Posted Nov 28 2011 - 00:13

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This makes me remember CoD 2 The Big Red One. Stuarts taking on Panzers and Tigers...

Mark2 #16 Posted Nov 28 2011 - 03:00

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Quote

This is where the they found out that they would need more than the Lee and half-track mounted howitzers to be able to dent the Germans.
I thought the Lee was already on its way out before the US went in.  The only reason 1st Armored took any M3 Lee tanks into French North Africa was that they had to give up their M4 Shermans in the UK to be shipped to Monty for El Alamein.  

Still I've always liked the look of that tank.  Guess I was too impressed by old Bogart movies when I was young.  Sure would be handy to be able to aim two directions at once in the game!  Saw some clips on a Military Channel program today showing M3s rolling down Tunisian streets with their 75s pointing forward, and their 37s pointing backwards.  Sure would help MY score!

Flyhalfer #17 Posted Nov 28 2011 - 19:34

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Thanks for the reference link, as well as the article.

I've got the day off today and I think this may interfere with getting the lawn mowed.
My daughter thanks you cause she would have had to do the trimming. (Now she gets to level her tanks) :)

The_Chieftain #18 Posted Nov 28 2011 - 19:41

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View PostMark2, on Nov 28 2011 - 03:00, said:

I thought the Lee was already on its way out before the US went in.  The only reason 1st Armored took any M3 Lee tanks into French North Africa was that they had to give up their M4 Shermans in the UK to be shipped to Monty for El Alamein.  

Initially, the US Army only wanted 320 M3 Mediums to be built in total. The demand for the tanks from the UK kept it in production far longer than originally anticipated, and it sortof snowballed from there. The US never had any delusions about M3 being a long-term tank, its replacement by M4 was anticipated before the first M3 was even built.

Grandpa_1961 #19 Posted Nov 29 2011 - 01:19

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Thanks for another excellent, and informative read... I enjoyed it immensely.  Please keep up the good work.

Cheers,
CMRE Gord "Jiggs" Jennings (ret)

Hihibob #20 Posted Nov 29 2011 - 02:41

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Ah, the M3 Stuart... It was the only tank I used in beta. :)




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