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When to use HE rounds


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Hacke #1 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 01:27

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I can read as much as I want but I do not undersatnd exactly when to use HE rounds.  For example, I am tier 6 tank and I cannot pen. a higher tank (tier 8).  Then switch rounds?

Please clarify, thanks in advance.

djuice1701 #2 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 01:36

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Now I recommend not using any HE rounds at all, if you are using Medium/Small caliber guns, eg: <88mm. If you can not penetrate the target frontally, then retreat back and maneuver around to get a shot @ the sides or rear, or stay put behind a cover, and wait for it to come to you, then it will exposes it's side armor around the corner. If you really can't do that then pray that one of the big boys can come around and distract him so you can GTF out of there.

UncleDolfie #3 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 02:13

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I recommend the same. Have pretty much stopped playing my HE spammers (Jumbo and VK2801) and now back to playing mostly my heavy AP hitters. HE has been majorly nerfed.

And no, don't tell me "you need to actually aim HE now" because 1) I know that but that doesn't help in practice and 2) even if I'm a great sniper (including feats such as tracked a streaking Leopard from the side from 520m away with a BL-9) and aim, you can't control where a 0.48 accuracy HE shell go most of the time.

Hacke #4 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 03:02

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thanks, clears things up for me.

del1001295635 #5 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 03:03

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Only when your gun can't shoot AP shells.

dauvin #6 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 04:07

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after 7.0, never

Zinegata #7 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 08:13

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View PostHacke, on Dec 19 2011 - 01:27, said:

I can read as much as I want but I do not undersatnd exactly when to use HE rounds.  For example, I am tier 6 tank and I cannot pen. a higher tank (tier 8).  Then switch rounds?

Please clarify, thanks in advance.

It depends. Personally, guns around 75mm have generally useless HE at higher tiers. Guns at around 88mm-90mm have largely useless HE. Bigger guns though have more useful HE rounds.

I would suggest that learning to aim for weak points is the superior strategy for a Tier 6 vehicle, since they have smallish guns, rather than switching to HE. If you can't hit any weakpoint, reposition.

wcompumike #8 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 08:25

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I now use HE as a distraction device. plant one in any tank's face as he's shooting and it throws his shot. I assisted a T-29 this way against another T-29 Our guy was hitting him square while his shots all went wild because my 76 mm he spam kept him rocking, no damage but I kept him from hitting ours and got a "thanks for the assist" afterwards so it does still have some use, just not much.

Meatvan #9 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 08:28

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View Postwcompumike, on Dec 19 2011 - 08:25, said:

I now use HE as a distraction device. plant one in any tank's face as he's shooting and it throws his shot. I assisted a T-29 this way against another T-29 Our guy was hitting him square while his shots all went wild because my 76 mm he spam kept him rocking, no damage but I kept him from hitting ours and got a "thanks for the assist" afterwards so it does still have some use, just not much.

Yep that is about it. They will still track but will do about 80% less damage. And too all the "learn to aim" fans that are sitting in tier 8 though 10 dont bother.

Zinegata #10 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 08:31

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View Postwcompumike, on Dec 19 2011 - 08:25, said:

I now use HE as a distraction device. plant one in any tank's face as he's shooting and it throws his shot. I assisted a T-29 this way against another T-29 Our guy was hitting him square while his shots all went wild because my 76 mm he spam kept him rocking, no damage but I kept him from hitting ours and got a "thanks for the assist" afterwards so it does still have some use, just not much.

HE isn't even really good as a distraction. There's an option to turn off "tank rocking" after getting hit, and competitive players will generally leave this option off (unless things changed in the new patch).

Killertomato #11 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 08:35

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HE is utterly useless now. Makes me glad I rolled through the KV pre-patch, the 122 grind to the good guns would be almost impossible.

Zinegata #12 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 08:36

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View PostMeatvan, on Dec 19 2011 - 08:28, said:

Yep that is about it. They will still track but will do about 80% less damage. And too all the "learn to aim" fans that are sitting in tier 8 though 10 dont bother.

A fair number of even Tier 8 tanks can be penetrated frontally if you aim for weakspots, using a 88mm or 90mm gun. In the most extreme cases... take a look at the armor difference between the front gun mantlet of a T29 compared to its front hull armor.

Note that I am also recommending the use of AP ammo against these tanks. It's not use HE and "aim better". It's use AP to penetrate weakspots on an enemy tank.

wcompumike #13 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 08:58

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View PostZinegata, on Dec 19 2011 - 08:31, said:

HE isn't even really good as a distraction. There's an option to turn off "tank rocking" after getting hit, and competitive players will generally leave this option off (unless things changed in the new patch).

It only turns it off the visual effect for you, the ACTUAL effect still happens weather you see it ot not, and will throw your shots...test it in a training game...having said that the distraction value is only so-so at best. I'm hanging onto HE but not in the quantity I used to run.

Appletree #14 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 09:19

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1. To break capping by hitting enemy in the circle of our base.
2. To break wall or wooden house that enemy is hiding behind. It will clear obstructing structure that blocks direct line-of-sight hit.
3. To hit speeding scouting light and track it.
4. To use HE-only gun like derp gun or SPG.

Traditional wisdom of using HE shells on target that AP shell of my gun can not pen is now invalid. HE shell now is next to useless for inflicting any meaningful damage on such target.
"Learn to aim"? If I can aim the weak spot and hit it, why use HE? Aiming and hitting the same spot with AP shell would be much more effective.

Meatvan #15 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 09:30

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View PostZinegata, on Dec 19 2011 - 08:36, said:

A fair number of even Tier 8 tanks can be penetrated frontally if you aim for weakspots, using a 88mm or 90mm gun. In the most extreme cases... take a look at the armor difference between the front gun mantlet of a T29 compared to its front hull armor.

Note that I am also recommending the use of AP ammo against these tanks. It's not use HE and "aim better". It's use AP to penetrate weakspots on an enemy tank.

And if you stop to tank that much time to aim for the weak spot to do minimal damage your dead.

1858remington #16 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 10:03

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Firstly, HE has not been nerfed.....  its been made more realistic.  :Smile_honoring:
  
As of 7.0 patch the HE has been changed from a radius to a cone.  
Meaning, when you hit an enemy the round projects force in a cone shape from point of impact.
In the old way it formed a blast radius and seeked out the weakest armor to damage.  
This caused tanks to take damage in areas that in reality would not have been hit.

Patch 7.0 also changed how armor worked.  
Armor is now divided into individual pannels.  
You aim at a front pannel you hit a front pannel, not say a turret ring, fuel tank, ammo rack, ect.

What does that mean for the player?? :blink:
1. You must not aim your shots for maximum effect, like at weak armor.... rear and sides.
2. You can now aim at specific areas and damage them, without your shots damage being routed somewhere else.
3. You are more likely to survive an HE hit if you are struck on your front armor now than before.
4. Arties have a harder time one shoting you, as they must aim for your weak spots.

HE rounds work fine, but differently.  
Once you learn how to use them they can be very effective under 7.0.

Are you sick of all those Type 59's?   :angry:
Use HE and target that log they have strapped to the rear of the tank between the 2 exterior tanks.
A good hit and they light up like a zippo lighter, and burn away their hit points. :lol:
Did it twice in a match yesterday in my M4 Sherman using the 105mm gun.

Under the new 7.0 update I can now hit an enemies gun and knock it out with HE.   :Smile-izmena:
Never could before since the explosion found other targets on the tank to damage.

Facing your enemy the HE isn't going to work well, got to aim at the sides and rear, where they are softest.

Zinegata #17 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 10:15

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View PostMeatvan, on Dec 19 2011 - 09:30, said:

And if you stop to tank that much time to aim for the weak spot to do minimal damage your dead.

Only when you're foolish enough to face a Tier 8 solo with a Tier 6. If you see that IS-3 turning its gun towards you, you don't wait for it to fire. You get out of dodge and work to get another shot later.  B)

Besides, all the cool kids have learned to fight a higher-tier opponent when they are too busy dealing with other stuff to shoot back, and that your mission is to do around 20-30% damage on the enemy Tier 8 so your own side's Tier 8s can more easily win against them B)

conductiv #18 Posted Dec 19 2011 - 11:40

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View Post1858remington, on Dec 19 2011 - 10:03, said:

Firstly, HE has not been nerfed.....  its been made more realistic.  :Smile_honoring:
  
As of 7.0 patch the HE has been changed from a radius to a cone.  
Meaning, when you hit an enemy the round projects force in a cone shape from point of impact.
In the old way it formed a blast radius and seeked out the weakest armor to damage.  
This caused tanks to take damage in areas that in reality would not have been hit.

Patch 7.0 also changed how armor worked.  
Armor is now divided into individual pannels.  
You aim at a front pannel you hit a front pannel, not say a turret ring, fuel tank, ammo rack, ect.

What does that mean for the player?? :blink:
1. You must not aim your shots for maximum effect, like at weak armor.... rear and sides.
2. You can now aim at specific areas and damage them, without your shots damage being routed somewhere else.
3. You are more likely to survive an HE hit if you are struck on your front armor now than before.
4. Arties have a harder time one shoting you, as they must aim for your weak spots.

HE rounds work fine, but differently.  
Once you learn how to use them they can be very effective under 7.0.

Are you sick of all those Type 59's?   :angry:
Use HE and target that log they have strapped to the rear of the tank between the 2 exterior tanks.
A good hit and they light up like a zippo lighter, and burn away their hit points. :lol:
Did it twice in a match yesterday in my M4 Sherman using the 105mm gun.

Under the new 7.0 update I can now hit an enemies gun and knock it out with HE.   :Smile-izmena:
Never could before since the explosion found other targets on the tank to damage.

Facing your enemy the HE isn't going to work well, got to aim at the sides and rear, where they are softest.

very intresting, I'll see if I can convince some people to test these theories once I get 7.0 on the EU server. (almost sure I'll find people willing to shoot me in various tanks)

if HE causes surefire module damage on penetration, the 1-shot potential will be huge. and I need something to meet the french burstcannon in 7.1..HE is the obvious candidate.