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Crusader tank


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vs125r #1 Posted Dec 26 2011 - 07:11

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I'm looking forward to the crusader tank when it released, currently saving up free exp for it.

I'm looking at pre-alpha tech tree, the crusader is a T5 tank and by doing some simple google-ing I found out its max speed is 48km/h on road, 28km/h off road. I'm speculating its in game max speed would be around 37-40km/h. So the question is how fast will it be (in-game)? Will it win on acceleration? What will be its redeeming quality? It go no armor to speak of and its gun is questionable.

Comparison with other nations (in-game):

- T-34. 56km/h
- Pz3/4. 55km/h
- Pz4. 48km/h
- M4. 48km/h (but with better acceleration)
- M7. 60km/h
- AMX 12t. 60km/h (still in beta I know)

Your thoughts?

Mow_Mow #2 Posted Dec 26 2011 - 20:06

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It might be upgunned from historical deployment version. Such as Panzer 4's 7.5cmL70.

captaindyllanrex #3 Posted Dec 26 2011 - 20:54

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crusader looks more like a tier 4 light to me, after all, it was a light tank

Drifter80 #4 Posted Dec 26 2011 - 21:18

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I wonder if they will split it into a crusader 1 and 3

Redwing6 #5 Posted Dec 27 2011 - 00:26

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here are the stats in real life:



ArmourMk I: 40 mm
Mk II: 49, III: 51[4]Main
armamentMk I, II: QF 2 pdr (40 mm) 110 rounds
Mk III: QF 6 pdr (57 mm) 65 roundsSecondary
armament1 or 2 × Besa machine gun
4,950 rounds[5]EngineNuffield Nuffield Liberty Mark II, III, or IV
27 litre V-12 petrol engine
340 bhp (254 kW) at 1,500 rpmPower/weight17.2–18 hp/tonneTransmissionNuffield constant mesh
4 speed and reverse through Wilson epicyclic steering unitsSuspensionChristie helical springGround clearance1 ft 4 in (0.41 m)Fuel capacity110 Imperial gallons in 3 fuel tanks (+30 auxiliary)Operational
range200 mi (322 km)Speed26 mph (42 km/h) (road)
15 mph (24 km/h) (off-road)

so you can see in reality it wasn't very fast...in game I'd expect 40-50 kph or so...and very thin armour...though the guns are pretty good...unless you put them against PzIV +...then you're in deep trouble

anglomanii #6 Posted Dec 27 2011 - 02:02

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yeah this is going to be tough one, it might be a little disappointing, it 2lbr and 6lbr guns where bloody accurate though even on the move.

TheOldGuardian #7 Posted Dec 27 2011 - 02:12

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View Postcaptaindyllanrex, on Dec 26 2011 - 20:54, said:

crusader looks more like a tier 4 light to me, after all, it was a light tank

Actually it sort of is only it isn't. See, the Crusader (along with the rest of the British "Medium" tank line from Crusader to Comet) are actually "Cruiser Tanks", these tanks were placed somewhere between Lights and Mediums, they shared the speed and mobility of the lights and the firepower or lack-thereof of the mediums of the day.

Unfortunately, this is where the Cruiser's luck runs out, the light armaments of these tanks (the Crusader had only a 2 pounder, the Cromwell had a 75mm) coupled with their lack of armor made them easy targets for most German tanks, heck you needed to get within spitting distance to even penetrate a freakin' Panzer II's frontal armor with the 2-Pounder, while he could snipe you from 400 meters away easily with his autocannon.

If there was anything good with the Cruisers, it was speed where they had it, the Crusader clocked in at 44kph, Cromwells did even faster going 52kph. So I pretty much can bet my money that most of the British "Medium" line will be focused on hit-and-run tactics more than anything else..

Ogopogo #8 Posted Dec 27 2011 - 03:38

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To quote myself from the older British discussion thread,

Quote

A stock M7 with the top engine upgrade has a roughly 19hp/tonne. The Crusader's historical engine gave it 17-18hp/tonne. Considering the fantasy equipment in this game, I would not be surprised to see it get around 20hp/tonne (just the top engine of course, not the other stuff like the upgraded turret)


Redwing6 #9 Posted Dec 27 2011 - 18:15

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The Crusader was a "cruiser" tank that was essentially a cavalry vehicle intended to have relatively high speed and good cross country mobility.  Early cruisers were seriously hampered by too light armour and because of their small turret rings, were limited to the 2 Lbr  (40mm) and 6 Lbr (57mm) guns.  They were developed into the Cromwell series.  But, in 1942 when the Cromwell 1st first being developed it was a very good tank, but due to low production of British industry, it wasn't deployed for 2 years by which time it was out classed by even the Pz IV J..and ALL subsequent German tanks.  On the other hand, it did lead directly to the development of the superior A34 Comet and the first British MBT the Centurion...

__gabriel__ #10 Posted Dec 29 2011 - 01:46

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Have played the A13 and A15 for years in wwiiol/battleground europe,

would be cool to see a WoT rendition,

Posted Image

http://www.wwiivehic...crusader-02.png

evhgear #11 Posted Dec 29 2011 - 02:48

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I imagine that they will be fast flankers, they will moove fast to flank their enemy with their QF2-6pounders(QF is for quick firing) so they will probably played like a Sherman E8, with a fast, precise with high penetration, but with low damage.

Crossfire_187th #12 Posted Dec 31 2011 - 08:38

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I strongly doubt that Crusader MKIII (6pdr) will be T5 because of lacking of Armour strength (side and rear hull were very weak than frontal hull). More likely to be T4. Crusader MK I and II (2pdr) will be T3....

Cromwell IV with 75mm will be T5 like sherman. Comet and Firefly will be T6 (17pdr)...

Ogopogo #13 Posted Dec 31 2011 - 17:43

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View PostCrossfire_187th, on Dec 31 2011 - 08:38, said:

I strongly doubt that Crusader MKIII (6pdr) will be T5 because of lacking of Armour strength (side and rear hull were very weak than frontal hull). More likely to be T4. Crusader MK I and II (2pdr) will be T3....

Cromwell IV with 75mm will be T5 like sherman. Comet and Firefly will be T6 (17pdr)...

With the M7 at tier 5 with a 6 lber, possessing 51mm of frontal armor (the same as the crusader), and possessing a very similar power to weight ratio, I see the crusader mk3 fitting just fine at tier 5.

Dominatus #14 Posted Jan 01 2012 - 04:08

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One wonders though, how the devs will work with the different crew sizes once the Crusader and Valentines got turret upgrades...

vs125r #15 Posted Jan 01 2012 - 05:35

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Well, we could assume it'll be a standard 5 crew setup despite turret upgrades.

Crossfire_187th #16 Posted Jan 01 2012 - 08:10

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View PostOgopogo, on Dec 31 2011 - 17:43, said:

With the M7 at tier 5 with a 6 lber, possessing 51mm of frontal armor (the same as the crusader), and possessing a very similar power to weight ratio, I see the crusader mk3 fitting just fine at tier 5.

Maybe... side and rear hull were only 28mm... That was weakness of Crusader MK3...  The speed of M7 US tank goes only 60km/h while the speed of Crusader MKII goes 27.5 km/h.

My major concern is about 6pdr MKIII as similar to RAM MKII since Dev had changed the penetration in distance between 100m and 500m in muzzle velocity. Let's say... 100m (should be more than 100mm) and 500m (between 80mm and 85mm). In the previous match, I flanked the heavy tank, Tiger I, in about 300m and I fired AP, Not APC, at the side of Tiger which was 80mm... It kept bouncing off... WTF... It acted like 2pdr pinball shooting... I had to get closer to penetrate the armour.

This is where I am beginning to worry if the dev team has changed the value of penetration for 6 pdr.    

Question, what kind of AP MK that this WOT used? The range of AP MK were between MK1 and MK7...

Ogopogo #17 Posted Jan 01 2012 - 18:06

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View PostCrossfire_187th, on Jan 01 2012 - 08:10, said:

Maybe... side and rear hull were only 28mm... That was weakness of Crusader MK3...  The speed of M7 US tank goes only 60km/h while the speed of Crusader MKII goes 27.5 km/h.

My major concern is about 6pdr MKIII as similar to RAM MKII since Dev had changed the penetration in distance between 100m and 500m in muzzle velocity. Let's say... 100m (should be more than 100mm) and 500m (between 80mm and 85mm). In the previous match, I flanked the heavy tank, Tiger I, in about 300m and I fired AP, Not APC, at the side of Tiger which was 80mm... It kept bouncing off... WTF... It acted like 2pdr pinball shooting... I had to get closer to penetrate the armour.

This is where I am beginning to worry if the dev team has changed the value of penetration for 6 pdr.    

Question, what kind of AP MK that this WOT used? The range of AP MK were between MK1 and MK7...
Actually the real M7 light tank, only had a 50km/h road speed. Source

The road speed of the crusader is 42km/h, and the max speed is 44km/h. When you implement this into the game, you are looking at around a max speed of about 55km/h.

Lisped #18 Posted Jan 01 2012 - 20:15

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All i know is that the cruisers should be faster than their contemporary US parts- also, the top speed of a t-34 is 55 IN GAME. The t-34 has worse PW/W, so its acceleration is worse - BUT - the crusader has better Power to weight, so evidently, it'll be around the speed of a t-34.

__gabriel__ #19 Posted Jan 01 2012 - 20:21

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The Power/Weight needs to be emphasized.

There are many vehicles in game with high track limits that never seem to come anywhere near it (remember the pre-buff Hetzer?), and there are heavy tanks that have 32kph track limits and hit it easily accelerate well.

42kph limit with lots of power is better than 55kph limit that you only hit going down hill with a sail up and a stiff breeze.

INKRO #20 Posted Jan 01 2012 - 20:44

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View PostCrossfire_187th, on Dec 31 2011 - 08:38, said:

I strongly doubt that Crusader MKIII (6pdr) will be T5 because of lacking of Armour strength (side and rear hull were very weak than frontal hull). More likely to be T4. Crusader MK I and II (2pdr) will be T3....


Think again, Tier IV is really friggin' bad as a whole save for the Hetzer.