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This is just stupid. That's all I can say about this whole thing.

 SpectreHD, on Jan 12 2012 - 18:44, said:

Thanks for your reply.

I think the main problem is that the tier 8 premiums (with the exception of the KV-5) are actually competent within their tiers, as opposed to being underdogs like the tier 5 premiums. At tier 5, you have to deal with some combination of poor armour, poor speed, and under-par gun. Tier 5s can still shine, they just need work to do so, and earn that payday.

Meanwhile... the T59 is at least as good as the T44, the Lowe has the best tier 8 gun and acceptable armour, and the bobblehead has a decent gun and great armour. No special tactics are required to get the huge payday (exempting the KV-5); just kill everything you see and rake in the dough.

Bobblehead and KV-5 are fine, but Lowe needs a less competent gun or worse armour, tbh, and the T59 who knows.

Part of the disconnect between people over what I call the "BS59" is the difference in tanks they use.  I think most people who seem to think it's rediculous to think the BS59 is OP are the ones who rarely use tanks below tier 8, which are probably mostly the people with premium tanks.  Players who haven't reached the higher tiers yet, and don't have the higher tanks yet have a completely different perspective on this than players who have been playing for a while now and only play high tier tanks.

A BS59 is a joke in my Tiger II or IS3.  I love seeing them in those tanks, it's revenge time!!!  But those are the only two truly powerful tanks I've reached yet, and something like 95% of my games so far have been played in weaker tanks than those.  In fact, I am non-prem with no prem tanks.  I spent money once, #23, to buy slots and 1 extra barracks just in case I needed it.  I got 18 days of free premium from the thanksgiving promotions.  Other than that, I am completely non-prem.  Not because I can't afford it, because I am a very experienced gamer and don't want the extra help.

I worked out how I was going to advance through this game before I started.  I am grinding all lines I am interested in at the same time, and keeping all the tanks I like best at their tier.  I have struck a balance where simply getting the doubles on all 24 tanks every day advances me forward through all the lines with me always having enough money to get to buy the next tank as soon as I unlock it.  I suspect to unlock a tank I can't afford too buy for the first time someting this month, along the way of buying all the tier 9s that are about to be researched.  But I am even going to make it most of the way through tier 9 before that happens.  I like the tier 5 and 6 tanks a lot, and they make good money, so I kept many of them and that is where my silver comes from.  I have tanks from tier 2 to 9 that I play every day, and it generates 200-300k per day getting the doubles done.  I am mentioning all of this so you understand just how much experience I have playing this game below Tier 8.  I have about 8,000 games and almost all of them were played below Tier 8.  You can see this, and which tanks I am using, by looking at my stats.  So I really have a lot of experience playing below tier 8, especially at 5 and 6.

Those of you who mostly play above tier 8 aren't going to see much of a problem with a BS59, but those of use who have only played mostly below Tier 8 have an entirely different perspective on "BS59's".  It is essentially a Tier 9 tank with a Tier 8 gun.  Not a big deal if you are in a King Tiger or an IS3, but a very big deal if you are in a VK3002DB, an Easy 8, and T34/85 or really almost any tier 7 or lower tank (they are not a problem in my T29, only 7 or lower I can think of that can say that).  I like having more powerful tanks than me out there.  I actually like being on the bottom of the list as much as being at the top, but BS59's are just plain unfair if you are in a tier 7 or lower tank.  I like the design decision put a range of tanks in games, and even for their to be tanks you can't possibly defeat 1-on-1 (that you must just avoid).  But that "tier 9 tank" part of the BS59 being rated a tier 8 tank becomes a serious problem in this system, especially when they are so common in games.

If I am in an Easy 8, or a T34/85 (which I love), I actually like encountering the other Tier 8 mediums.  It's the greatest reasonable challenge to face in those tanks, far more than any heavy that you can choose to break off from any time you want... once you engage a Tier 8 medium you pretty much have to win or die.  I love encountering a Pershing, or Panther II, or T44 in a Tiere 6 or 7 medium... except for BS59s.  BS59's are not reasonable.  It is almost impossible to harm them, no matter where you shoot them.  This is just not true of the other tanks.

People say the other Tier 8 tanks are better than a BS59.  I am still a day or two away from getting my Panther II and have only used a Pershing so far... but I feel like my Pershing is more powerful than a BS59 when I fight them in it.  I'm sure it is since most who have used both say so.  That Tier 9 armor is not a big deal to my Pershings tier 9 gun, so the "BS" of the BS59 dissapears at that level.  But below Tier 8 the Tier 9 armor on that Tier 8 tank make it simply unfair to lower tier tanks who have almost no chance of harming it.

So I just wanted to point out this disconnect in the discussion, where some people rightfully see the tank as nothing special (those who rarely use lower tier tanks) and people who say the thing is just plain unfair (people who have recently been shooting at them from tier 6 and 7 tanks).

To qoute a famous political slogan: "It's the Tier 9 armor, stupid..."

Maybe this is being done out of spite.  As Type 59 numbers decrease players will be fighting tougher, proper Tier 8 mediums and getting wrecked.  If you can't take a type 59 you are dead against an upgraded Tier 8.  They are probably just waiting for someone to make a "Nerf the tier 8 mediums" post.....it will be wonderful, I'll have to post the link to M Bison going "This is delicious" when they do.

 NinjaFisT, on Jan 12 2012 - 18:11, said:

I highly doubt it will be OP....it is still going to be the same panzy asstic hull T34 prolly hit with the nerf bat hard to kill its speed and agility.  Only thing it will have going for it will be the 120mm.  It wont be OP, prolly something like a KV5, yeah its there, yeah its T8 and big and semi sorta scary, but its nothing we cant handle....

Anyone else find the timing strange with the recent poll asking us if we like to "collect" things?  

Also, if they want people to play other tier 8 mediums they should have put out another tier 8 medium premium tank.  example- Then instead of 6 type 59's in a match there would be three 59's and three of the new tank.

@Kavik... I play all tiers... the only Tier I don't have in my Garage atm is Tier 1... most played is Tier 6 with my VK3601... so...

Oh... and 8 premiums in my Garage from Tier 2-8...

Okay, I'd be a liar if I didn't admit I'm happy about this. Less of the damned things appearing? Wow, maybe I'll actually see some other tier 8 mediums now.

Whiners: Type 59 OP! My tier 6 can't kill it! Whine whine whine...

WG:  Well, let's listen to the vocal minority. Raise its mm value.  Let's stop selling it for now.

Whiners: OMG! Must be a marketing ploy by a for-profit company! Soon they will sell something else.  Whine whine whine...

YAY I GET TO KEEP MINE!

Maybe the T59 will be like a very rare tank to find pretty soon.......

 Joe_B, on Jan 12 2012 - 18:03, said:

Its true more premium tanks will come out.

I am hoping we are able to pursue the ability to make you elite tanks "premium" and give them that same earning power as regular premium tanks. it has been suggested several times and i think its a good alternative.

I'll keep you updated on any progress in that direction.

Raise the price of the Löwe but take the Type 59 out GG Wargaming this is a huge downfall you're letting the complaints run rampant. Maybe you all who think it is overpowered should figure out that it's one of if not the easiest tank to ammo rack in the game deffinately for premiums. This game is just going to die away so many of the top end clans have started to go to other games, to think you want to take gold out of clan wars....!


P.S. Why not just have premium tanks of a certain tier be in the game for a certain amount of time and then taken out. Just a idea of my clan mate. This would avoid having so much QQing over it such a lack luster tank and the people who are normally complaining aren't even the ones who have been around for a while they have just picked up the game.

Wargaming, screwing balance since 1998. We will see a rise of the Type 59 number for 1-2 month, until they decide to sell the next T8 premium (probably the IS-6 or T34) with also a rise of the Lowe. Indeed in the longterm the Type 59 will disappear, but in the longterm the rise of T8 premium will continue to screw low tier MM definitely ...

So if this is going to decrease the numbers of T-59's out there, is the T-59 matchmaking going to be adjusted down again.


Still, fewer 59's, means fewer chances for people to learn where the soft squishy parts are and gives me more chances to be 'OP'.

Have to say... I'm "this" close to getting out of my T20 into the Pershing... then again with this turn of events... I almost DON'T want to complete the grind now... figure all I'd hear is "OH... poor fanboy... have to run some other Tier 8 medium instead of your chinese take out now huh??"...

More and more this game just keeps turning me off...

Wow what a way to do the exact opp of what you claim to want to avoid. You give everyone 4 days to buy a 59. You guys short on $ and need a fast influx? This sounds more like a money grab than a balance issue. Balance seems like something you guys seem not to worried about.

i guess next chinese tank will be type 62 lT after type 59

 JohnGaltCobraCommander, on Jan 12 2012 - 18:03, said:

This decision really doesn't have to do with money. More money would have been made by leaving the tank in place.

This decision was about balance, There were just too many type 59s per game and that was the biggest source of the problems. Over time you'll see less of them in games as more people join.

I keep telling people in-game that my Type 59 is an endangered species, but they keep shooting at me!