It might be time to decrease Chaffee opera...
Cocoa_Jin
Jan 27 2012
Simply, reduce its repair costs or boost its income. With the addition of the French lights, the high repair costs/relativly low income of the Chaffee is becoming more and more apparent.
It seems its costs are way out of wack compared to other lights with similar armor, HP, gun, speed and maneuvering.
It would seem that making it a bit more profitable would still allow for the other lights such as the new French models to still be attractive and worth playing with.
It seems its costs are way out of wack compared to other lights with similar armor, HP, gun, speed and maneuvering.
It would seem that making it a bit more profitable would still allow for the other lights such as the new French models to still be attractive and worth playing with.
Tolos
Jan 27 2012
Cocoa_Jin, on Jan 27 2012 - 23:03, said:
Simply, reduce its repair costs or boost its income. With the addition of the French lights, the high repair costs/relativly low income of the Chaffee is becoming more and more apparent.
It seems its costs are way out of wack compared to other lights with similar armor, HP, gun, speed and maneuvering.
It would seem that making it a bit more profitable would still allow for the other lights such as the new French models to still be attractive and worth playing with.
It seems its costs are way out of wack compared to other lights with similar armor, HP, gun, speed and maneuvering.
It would seem that making it a bit more profitable would still allow for the other lights such as the new French models to still be attractive and worth playing with.
the tier 5 lights are end of line/tier tanks. the french tanks arnt, they lead onto bigger and better
all end of tier tanks should be expensive to run, regardless of if they are TD's, arty, heavies, mediums or lights
and all the tier 5 lights will at least break even on good games ( if you have a premium account )
Brawl987
Jan 27 2012
Agreed. Although I personally drive a T-50-2, I hate the AMX 12t. It always kills me one-on-one. and then I get no money for that battle.
Houndoom57
Jan 28 2012
Yeeeeeeeaaaaaaaa...
I wouldnt mind the high costs if the AMX 12t had earnings like all the other tier fives. It performs just as well as the others, and I lose fights with them all to frequently in my Chaffee. Im probably playing it wrong (Or Im just a judgemental 16 year old), but I cant stand losing 6000+ credits in a match, and knowing that the AMX 12t can walk away from a loss with more than a profit.
I wouldnt mind the high costs if the AMX 12t had earnings like all the other tier fives. It performs just as well as the others, and I lose fights with them all to frequently in my Chaffee. Im probably playing it wrong (Or Im just a judgemental 16 year old), but I cant stand losing 6000+ credits in a match, and knowing that the AMX 12t can walk away from a loss with more than a profit.
Tolos
Jan 28 2012
Houndoom57, on Jan 28 2012 - 09:18, said:
Yeeeeeeeaaaaaaaa...
I wouldnt mind the high costs if the AMX 12t had earnings like all the other tier fives. It performs just as well as the others, and I lose fights with them all to frequently in my Chaffee. Im probably playing it wrong (Or Im just a judgemental 16 year old), but I cant stand losing 6000+ credits in a match, and knowing that the AMX 12t can walk away from a loss with more than a profit.
I wouldnt mind the high costs if the AMX 12t had earnings like all the other tier fives. It performs just as well as the others, and I lose fights with them all to frequently in my Chaffee. Im probably playing it wrong (Or Im just a judgemental 16 year old), but I cant stand losing 6000+ credits in a match, and knowing that the AMX 12t can walk away from a loss with more than a profit.
well for a start you comparing a end of tier tanks with a tank that leads to something else
if you want to compare, then its the AMX 12T - Sherman - T-34 - VK3001(P) - VK3601 - VK3001(H)
THOSE are the tanks you should be comparing, NOT the T52 VK2801 and the Chaffee
if anything you compare the Chaffee T52 and VK2801 to Tier 10 heavies, Tier 9 mediums, tier 8 Arty and Tier 9 TD's, as they are ALL end of tier tanks
hope this clears a few things up for you
wombat_of_war
Jan 28 2012
as an amx 13 driver i was covering my eyes that first battle waiting for the repair bill and was pleasantly suprised. dont forget this is a temporary french tree and something im dreading is when the french tree expands and the amx's get their own distinctive tech tree line. and then im expecting the repair costs to double at least.
simply put the chaffee cant compete and the repair bills makes it far too expensive to play. it needs to be fixed or something
simply put the chaffee cant compete and the repair bills makes it far too expensive to play. it needs to be fixed or something
Znath
Jan 29 2012
I've always agreed that it's obscene how low the income and high the repairs cost on the Tier5 lights.
M41, same chassis as the Chaffee. Repairs 5x less.
On top of that what true reasoning is there for a light tank to cost 8000 credits to repair?
It costs less than that to fix my Tiger from totally dead or at least damn close.
Last I checked the Chaffee wasn't sporting some kind of RollsRoyce turbine engine.
M41, same chassis as the Chaffee. Repairs 5x less.
On top of that what true reasoning is there for a light tank to cost 8000 credits to repair?
It costs less than that to fix my Tiger from totally dead or at least damn close.
Last I checked the Chaffee wasn't sporting some kind of RollsRoyce turbine engine.
calabacinX
Jan 30 2012
Now even tier 7 light tank (amx-13 90) is way more profitable than the chaffee, and nobody says it is OP, its credit income, repair cost and matchmaking placement must be redefined.
VonStryker
Jan 30 2012
it would ne nice of they make the repair costs half of what it is currently
Having that said I make about 20k on a good game if im not destroyed in the first minute or so lol which is more than what I made in my vk 2801, a lot more
Also that 20k is before repair/resupply costs
Having that said I make about 20k on a good game if im not destroyed in the first minute or so lol which is more than what I made in my vk 2801, a lot more
Also that 20k is before repair/resupply costs
Bushmaster4
Jan 30 2012
Sold my Chafee due to this. It looses credits a lot... It 'can' be profitable but I lost way more credits than I ever gained.
pEEthug
Mar 05 2012
This concept that end of the line tanks should cost more, without any critical thought as to whether they are in some way given such a huge advantage as to deserve such a credit hit is ludicrous. The chaffee (i just got mine) will be fun, but in no way invincible no matter how competent a driver. The operating costs are ridiculous. Please lower them.
Its a light tank that exists in a world of typically more heavily armed and armored tanks. Yes it has its advantages, but its a tank that must be piloted on the verge of extreme danger all the time spotting and waiting for a chance to kill. Not only that, you have to play damn hard to earn it. Why penalize us for wanting to use a unique vehicle in a largely repetitive game? I had a 500 exp a minute ago (in my mostly stock chaff) I spotted for my team, and out witted the enemy teams big dogs, and was instrumental in my team steam rolling the enemy. I make one tiny mistake near the end and get thrashed. Ok, "it" happens, still a solid win. I get out and make only 8000 or so creds? and my repair costs are around 8000 cred? wtf is that bs? There is no justification for such a drastic penalty.
Saying its an end or the line tank is completely irrelevant. On it's own, that is a poorly thought-out rule. If it is one
Its a light tank that exists in a world of typically more heavily armed and armored tanks. Yes it has its advantages, but its a tank that must be piloted on the verge of extreme danger all the time spotting and waiting for a chance to kill. Not only that, you have to play damn hard to earn it. Why penalize us for wanting to use a unique vehicle in a largely repetitive game? I had a 500 exp a minute ago (in my mostly stock chaff) I spotted for my team, and out witted the enemy teams big dogs, and was instrumental in my team steam rolling the enemy. I make one tiny mistake near the end and get thrashed. Ok, "it" happens, still a solid win. I get out and make only 8000 or so creds? and my repair costs are around 8000 cred? wtf is that bs? There is no justification for such a drastic penalty.
Saying its an end or the line tank is completely irrelevant. On it's own, that is a poorly thought-out rule. If it is one
ramp4ge
Mar 05 2012
The French tier V, VI and VII lights effectively obsoleted the Chaffee. Yes, it's definitely time to decrease the operating and maintenance cost of the Chaffee. It's also time to introduce the M41.
Really, it was always stupid for the Chaffee to cost so much to maintain. It's a light tank. It weights a quarter of what a Tiger II does, but costs as much to repair?
"End-route" doesn't mean anything. It just means there's nothing else on that route to sink exp into. How is that a justification for costing more?
Really, it was always stupid for the Chaffee to cost so much to maintain. It's a light tank. It weights a quarter of what a Tiger II does, but costs as much to repair?
"End-route" doesn't mean anything. It just means there's nothing else on that route to sink exp into. How is that a justification for costing more?
evrik
Mar 05 2012
I agree. Just got my Chaffee a few days ago love the tank, HATE the cost. Unless I kill 2-3 tanks im going in the hole, lets not even mention consumables. Me Vs. an AMX 13 without some heavy support and its over, and im out 5k credits.
linoleumz
Mar 05 2012
I posted this in another identical thread, but as these just keep popping up I figured I might as well say it here as well:
I voted No to the idea to "UnNerf" the credit loss//decrease operating costs, here are my reasons why (most of these have been pointed out already, but it helps to reiterate):
-T5 lights are endgame tanks (that is, they are at the end of a research line and are put in tier 10 matches), endgame tanks are not intended to be very profitable if at all. Now, there are some of you who don't understand WHY the devs have designed it this way, well let me try to put it simply: endgame tanks are unprofitable to ensure that the matchmaking 'pool' of tanks does not become too full of top tier tanks, leaving the lower/mid tier players no one to play with. That's really all there is to it, no tinfoil hat necessary, not sure why it's so difficult a concept to grasp.
-It doesn't make sense to compare the T5 lights with the AMX 13 90 as if they were on equal footing, because they're just not. This would be somewhat similar to comparing the T-44 to the T-54, of course the T-54 can outperform the T-44, thus the T-54 is weighted "heavier" by the MM and will take up more of your team's overall "weight". The non-french T5 lights are "dedicated scouts" because they take up less of the team's "weight" as their role is primarily to scout, not deal significant damage. This is a challenging thing for many to understand because the precise workings of the MM system are a bit vague, but this factor cannot be ignored when comparing the ability of two tanks.
-Whether by intentional design or simply a bi-product, the lower credit earnings do in fact discourage suicide scouting, something which is far too prevalent among scouts of all tiers.
Lastly, I would just point out that it is still very possible to earn credits in the T5s. Granted, I can only personally speak for the Chaffee, but here's some universal advice: low earnings from no damage + high repairs from frequent destruction = net loss. Work on improving overall performance and survivability and I guarantee you the credit earnings will not seem like such an issue.
I voted No to the idea to "UnNerf" the credit loss//decrease operating costs, here are my reasons why (most of these have been pointed out already, but it helps to reiterate):
-T5 lights are endgame tanks (that is, they are at the end of a research line and are put in tier 10 matches), endgame tanks are not intended to be very profitable if at all. Now, there are some of you who don't understand WHY the devs have designed it this way, well let me try to put it simply: endgame tanks are unprofitable to ensure that the matchmaking 'pool' of tanks does not become too full of top tier tanks, leaving the lower/mid tier players no one to play with. That's really all there is to it, no tinfoil hat necessary, not sure why it's so difficult a concept to grasp.
-It doesn't make sense to compare the T5 lights with the AMX 13 90 as if they were on equal footing, because they're just not. This would be somewhat similar to comparing the T-44 to the T-54, of course the T-54 can outperform the T-44, thus the T-54 is weighted "heavier" by the MM and will take up more of your team's overall "weight". The non-french T5 lights are "dedicated scouts" because they take up less of the team's "weight" as their role is primarily to scout, not deal significant damage. This is a challenging thing for many to understand because the precise workings of the MM system are a bit vague, but this factor cannot be ignored when comparing the ability of two tanks.
-Whether by intentional design or simply a bi-product, the lower credit earnings do in fact discourage suicide scouting, something which is far too prevalent among scouts of all tiers.
Lastly, I would just point out that it is still very possible to earn credits in the T5s. Granted, I can only personally speak for the Chaffee, but here's some universal advice: low earnings from no damage + high repairs from frequent destruction = net loss. Work on improving overall performance and survivability and I guarantee you the credit earnings will not seem like such an issue.
guywitn0life
Mar 05 2012
Quote
endgame tanks are unprofitable to ensure that the matchmaking 'pool' of tanks does not become too full of top tier tanks,
This would make sense the French lights weren't equally as effective. Even the AMX-13-90 doesn't cost as much as a Chaffee to repair, despite being vastly more effective in almost every way. The French tier 6 light is comparable to everyone else's tier 5 lights and doesn't cost anywhere near as much to repair as the Chaffee or other tier 5 lights.
Really, does it matter if a bunch of tier 5 lights are running around? Not really. Especially in-light of drum-mag-reloading French lights that pretty much obsolete the tier 5 lights anyway...
"End-route" vehicle doesn't automatically translate into uber expensive.
Tier 9 is end-route for mediums, but you know what? A Patton and a T34, both being tier 9, cost about the same to repair. T34 isn't end-route, but both are tier 9 and share the same repair bill, give or take a bit.
Know what that tells me? Tells me that despite being end-route, the tier 5 lights should share the repair of the other tier 5s..It tells me that the tier 5 lights have become the exception, not the rule..
PrinceValium
Mar 05 2012
"T5 lights are endgame tanks (that is, they are at the end of a research line and are put in tier 10 matches), endgame tanks are not intended to be very profitable if at all. Now, there are some of you who don't understand WHY the devs have designed it this way, well let me try to put it simply: endgame tanks are unprofitable to ensure that the matchmaking 'pool' of tanks does not become too full of top tier tanks, leaving the lower/mid tier players no one to play with. That's really all there is to it, no tinfoil hat necessary, not sure why it's so difficult a concept to grasp."
I understand WarGaming's intent and that same intent will be the end of this game on the NA server in my opinion. I really like to play the higher tier tanks and have tried repeatedly to play the lower tiers and get bored with them quick. I also would not mind matches full of tier 8 through tier 10 tanks all of the time.
If this game does not keep enough new people coming in to keep the people who like to play lower tiers with no one to play with and forcing those of us who dont want to play low tiers into low tier battles then dont be surprised when they shut down the NA server due to inactivity.
I understand WarGaming's intent and that same intent will be the end of this game on the NA server in my opinion. I really like to play the higher tier tanks and have tried repeatedly to play the lower tiers and get bored with them quick. I also would not mind matches full of tier 8 through tier 10 tanks all of the time.
If this game does not keep enough new people coming in to keep the people who like to play lower tiers with no one to play with and forcing those of us who dont want to play low tiers into low tier battles then dont be surprised when they shut down the NA server due to inactivity.
linoleumz
Mar 05 2012
guywitn0life, on Mar 05 2012 - 11:24, said:
This would make sense the French lights weren't equally as effective. Even the AMX-13-90 doesn't cost as much as a Chaffee to repair, despite being vastly more effective in almost every way. The French tier 6 light is comparable to everyone else's tier 5 lights and doesn't cost anywhere near as much to repair as the Chaffee or other tier 5 lights.
Really, does it matter if a bunch of tier 5 lights are running around? Not really. Especially in-light of drum-mag-reloading French lights that pretty much obsolete the tier 5 lights anyway...
"End-route" vehicle doesn't automatically translate into uber expensive.
Tier 9 is end-route for mediums, but you know what? A Patton and a T34, both being tier 9, cost about the same to repair. T34 isn't end-route, but both are tier 9 and share the same repair bill, give or take a bit.
Know what that tells me? Tells me that despite being end-route, the tier 5 lights should share the repair of the other tier 5s..It tells me that the tier 5 lights have become the exception, not the rule..
Really, does it matter if a bunch of tier 5 lights are running around? Not really. Especially in-light of drum-mag-reloading French lights that pretty much obsolete the tier 5 lights anyway...
"End-route" vehicle doesn't automatically translate into uber expensive.
Tier 9 is end-route for mediums, but you know what? A Patton and a T34, both being tier 9, cost about the same to repair. T34 isn't end-route, but both are tier 9 and share the same repair bill, give or take a bit.
Know what that tells me? Tells me that despite being end-route, the tier 5 lights should share the repair of the other tier 5s..It tells me that the tier 5 lights have become the exception, not the rule..
First off, 9k repairs is hardly "uber expensive". Also, if they were to make an early "mid-route" tank non-profitable, a lot of players would get stuck and it would be very difficult to advance further (advancing from tier 9 to tier 10 is supposed to be difficult). Since the T5 lights are at the end of the line, that is not a problem.
They shouldn't share the repair of other tier 5s because they are much better than tier 5s and are not weighted as tier 5s by MM, if you've noticed in team line-ups the T5 lights are ranked with the tier 7 meds, which coincidentally have about the same repair costs as T5 lights, give or take a bit. As for the french Lights, I'm not gonna disagree with you about that, IMO the french Lights have disproportionately low repair costs, in which case they are the exception.
MilesCadre
Mar 05 2012
Heres why Tier 5 Scouts cost more to repair and make less than tier 5 lights in the french tree.
As it was mentioned by the devs (somewhere.. I'll find the link), and everyone else, the tier 5 scouts are end tier tanks. All end tier tanks irregardless of the tier, arent supposed to make money.
On a standard account, and on a good game with the 105, I break even with my 2801. Premium, I make a little profit. If I switch to the 75, I always make money unless its a horrible game.
Unfortunately, because we go on the concept "End Tiers Dont Make Money" I think of it as proportional to the profit margin of a maus or e-100. I cant officially say that as I dont know their profit margins but I imagine theyre expensive.
As for repair costs, my M4 takes around 5-7K to repair, another 2K to restock. Thats about how much it costs my 2801 (8-9K repair, 1-2K restock). So, theyre almost in tune to other tier 5s.
Tier 5 scout is usually a end tier tank. you get it to enjoy the thing, run around and have fun. Not to make money, maybe to gridn a little free exp. Scouts have a viable role, jsut not a profitable role.
As it was mentioned by the devs (somewhere.. I'll find the link), and everyone else, the tier 5 scouts are end tier tanks. All end tier tanks irregardless of the tier, arent supposed to make money.
On a standard account, and on a good game with the 105, I break even with my 2801. Premium, I make a little profit. If I switch to the 75, I always make money unless its a horrible game.
Unfortunately, because we go on the concept "End Tiers Dont Make Money" I think of it as proportional to the profit margin of a maus or e-100. I cant officially say that as I dont know their profit margins but I imagine theyre expensive.
As for repair costs, my M4 takes around 5-7K to repair, another 2K to restock. Thats about how much it costs my 2801 (8-9K repair, 1-2K restock). So, theyre almost in tune to other tier 5s.
Tier 5 scout is usually a end tier tank. you get it to enjoy the thing, run around and have fun. Not to make money, maybe to gridn a little free exp. Scouts have a viable role, jsut not a profitable role.
ColdBackHAND
Mar 05 2012
I'm fine the current repair and resupply costs. The low operating cost makes this end tier tank makes it fun to drive.
warrends
Mar 05 2012
Chaffee is expensive credit-wise to repair, but that doesn't bother me at all. What I love about this tank is that it is so maneuverable and quick and that, for that fun, I tend to grab a LOT of XP. I can keep those XP on this tank to train the crew (which I do --- someday I'll have a Chaffee crew full of invincible supermen with every skill available) or I can uncheck the elite box and accrue XP to later convert to free XP for other tanks. This tank does gain a LOT of XP (at least for me). Overall I think I have made credits on it (cannot be sure), but I AM sure that I have made a LOT of XP on it. This game isn't only about credits. At least not for me.
