Jump to content


Malinovka - when to go up hill, and when leave hill?


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
24 replies to this topic

del1001295635 #1 Posted Feb 04 2012 - 14:43

    Major

  • Players
  • 13036 battles
  • 8,029
  • Member since:
    09-22-2011
So I just came out of a bad tier 10 match in my IS.  I started out in the north, and decided to head up the hill as usual.  On the way there, I was shot by an invisible tank, then artied a couple times.  I ended up with 300 health by the time I got up there.

Once there, I saw that my company was a Patton and an IS-7.  They had the usual strategy and even said it - "wait for the enemy to make their move first", or something like that.  I decided I would follow them when they eventually charged down.  But they didn't, they just camped the hill while we lost our other tanks.  And I'm usually an aggressive player, but I won't lead a charge in a 300 health IS in a tier 10 match.  But eventually I got finished off by arty anyways.  Maybe I should have returned to base and tried to snipe the tanks from there?

So, what do you think?  Was I wrong in heading up the hill and exposing myself to enemy and arty fire?  Was I wrong in staying there with 300 health?  Is hill generally an overrated part of Malinovka?

Warkid139 #2 Posted Feb 04 2012 - 14:53

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 7964 battles
  • 437
  • Member since:
    04-26-2011
interesting, It may have been smart to attack, but it depends on how much they were hitting your base. I'm not much of a help unless if I'm there in the battle itself, but I would've waited a little to get arty uninterested(on the hill i mean), then sneak through the woods in the far north, then make a move at the base, but you would need cover from arty to make that attack effective..... just a thought.

overall learn from battles and continue to fight with humility and respect, that is the greatest advantage of man, seeya.

Salute!

Rdm1 #3 Posted Feb 04 2012 - 14:58

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 3831 battles
  • 338
  • Member since:
    06-24-2011
Well i was once in a match in my B2, and the same scenario happened, i went down the hill back to base, becuase it was being capped, anyway a long story short I got top-gun. So (and even before that happened) if the base is being over runned or if i have low-health i will go back to base 95% of the time, and it is a good stratagy.

Warkid139 #4 Posted Feb 04 2012 - 15:01

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 7964 battles
  • 437
  • Member since:
    04-26-2011

View PostRdm1, on Feb 04 2012 - 14:58, said:

Well i was once in a match in my B2, and the same scenario happened, i went down the hill back to base, becuase it was being capped, anyway a long story short I got top-gun. So (and even before that happened) if the base is being over runned or if i have low-health i will go back to base 95% of the time, and it is a good stratagy.

agreed.

BLEKFOX1 #5 Posted Feb 04 2012 - 15:01

    Private

  • Players
  • 17 battles
  • 7
  • Member since:
    06-10-2011
LUZERS
деганы уйобки я на кв 10 фрагов взял

Please in English.  Penalty already in place.  ~ Brygin

del1001295635 #6 Posted Feb 04 2012 - 15:01

    Major

  • Players
  • 13036 battles
  • 8,029
  • Member since:
    09-22-2011

View PostRdm1, on Feb 04 2012 - 14:58, said:

Well i was once in a match in my B2, and the same scenario happened, i went down the hill back to base, becuase it was being capped, anyway a long story short I got top-gun. So (and even before that happened) if the base is being over runned or if i have low-health i will go back to base 95% of the time, and it is a good stratagy.
Ah, I didn't make myself clear.  The base wasn't being overrun, not even close.  Everyone in base was camping too.  The problem was team mates slowly dying to arty and snipers, rather than anything being overrun.

BLEKFOX1 #7 Posted Feb 04 2012 - 15:02

    Private

  • Players
  • 17 battles
  • 7
  • Member since:
    06-10-2011
LUZERS
деганы уйобки я на кв 10 фрагов взял

HOTA_CHATON #8 Posted Feb 04 2012 - 15:05

    Major

  • Players
  • 10167 battles
  • 9,242
  • [-BAT-] -BAT-
  • Member since:
    09-28-2011
You mentioned invisible tanks?  "OKAY, WHO LET THE KLINGONS OUT AGAIN"?  Seriously, I don't blame you, you were kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.  It is
apparent that they were just looking for a new camping spot and found it.  300HP, in a game like that is nothing to sneeze at and I am not sure you could have done
much else, if anything.

Rdm1 #9 Posted Feb 04 2012 - 15:07

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 3831 battles
  • 338
  • Member since:
    06-24-2011

View PostSilty, on Feb 04 2012 - 15:01, said:

Ah, I didn't make myself clear.  The base wasn't being overrun, not even close.  Everyone in base was camping too.  The problem was team mates slowly dying to arty and snipers, rather than anything being overrun.

Even if your comrades were dieng to sniping fire i think (what side were you on?) you should of gone down there if you had a crew trained in camo, or you could of tried to hang of the side of the hill just to try to spot anything, but the kind of scenario you discribed sounds like you were going to lose anyway, so this is just a "pick your death" kind of scenario, so this is just one of those battles that no one can really help you, it is just what you think is best.

Warkid139 #10 Posted Feb 05 2012 - 00:44

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 7964 battles
  • 437
  • Member since:
    04-26-2011

View PostHOTA_CHATON, on Feb 04 2012 - 15:05, said:

You mentioned invisible tanks?  "OKAY, WHO LET THE KLINGONS OUT AGAIN"?  Seriously, I don't blame you, you were kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.  It is
apparent that they were just looking for a new camping spot and found it.  300HP, in a game like that is nothing to sneeze at and I am not sure you could have done
much else, if anything.

lol, I'm a fan of star trek too.

ParrotOne #11 Posted Feb 07 2012 - 17:20

    Sergeant

  • Beta Testers
  • 23136 battles
  • 146
  • [SIMP] SIMP
  • Member since:
    10-09-2010
One huge problem with this map is that the key points and strategies are not intuitive at all, so 90% of pub games here basically result in this situation: players follow the same map routes in tier 10 as they did in tier 1 and end up getting lit and pasted by arty one at a time.  The team with the fewest members to do this then proceeds to steamroll the team that didn't know how to exploit the map.  Since you can't convince random strangers to formulate an offense they just sit there until the game tips in their favor or they die.

http://img836.images...malinovka01.jpg

1000 hours in MSPaint. In this image you can see how the south side gets a massive advantage at the start. This is why when the timer hits zero, most north players will hit F twice and back way up - a tier 5 light or a Patton barely needs to move to light your whole team up and then retreat behind the building cover the north side conveniently doesn't have.  Then the enemy scout can go to the E4 bush or one of the bushes on the hill and light up any player who follows the road. The big red arrow is the enemy shells as they smack your team in the sides from across the map.  Anyway this is most likely how you got spotted. Just avoid the road.

The north side does have a few perks - a scout with great camo rating can sit in the bush in the middle of the field and light up enemies, but since south has cover and more foliage it's less effective than scouting from the south even though they are closer.  Ideally though, a north team should send 80% of its members through the woods and up the hill.  A medium tank or two should go through town and get into the depression at grid D-8, then peek over the edge to light stuff while jinking for arty safety. Then the hill team can roll down into the woods along the 0-line in a massive coordinated strike.  The problem with public games of course is that people will either never agree to go offense, or the fast tanks will trickle down off the hill and die while the slower heavies sit back and watch.  People also love to sit as base in the open and shoot at slivers of tanks behind buildings, not realizing this gets them lit and artied.

I don't think this map was designed with high tiers in mind at all.  In fact I debate whether this map was even 'designed' as that implies some thought went into it.  Did they look at the layout from the perspective of a newer player? Not likely.  It is just a mess that exemplifies why people don't like the vision system.  It is about half the size it should be for a tier 10 match.  You weren't wrong to head up the hill, but you used a bad route. And the hill is not overrated, in fact its importance can't be understated in public matches. Clanwars may be a different story.

Stickeye #12 Posted Feb 07 2012 - 18:47

    First lieutenant

  • Beta Testers
  • 15224 battles
  • 688
  • [-G-] -G-
  • Member since:
    11-16-2010
This map really needs to have a hard cap of tier 6.

Or

The map needs a strip of land about 200m wide inserted that runs from south west to north east.

del1001295635 #13 Posted Feb 08 2012 - 01:49

    Major

  • Players
  • 13036 battles
  • 8,029
  • Member since:
    09-22-2011

View PostParrotOne, on Feb 07 2012 - 17:20, said:

One huge problem with this map is that the key points and strategies are not intuitive at all, so 90% of pub games here basically result in this situation: players follow the same map routes in tier 10 as they did in tier 1 and end up getting lit and pasted by arty one at a time.  The team with the fewest members to do this then proceeds to steamroll the team that didn't know how to exploit the map.  Since you can't convince random strangers to formulate an offense they just sit there until the game tips in their favor or they die.

http://img836.images...malinovka01.jpg

1000 hours in MSPaint. In this image you can see how the south side gets a massive advantage at the start. This is why when the timer hits zero, most north players will hit F twice and back way up - a tier 5 light or a Patton barely needs to move to light your whole team up and then retreat behind the building cover the north side conveniently doesn't have.  Then the enemy scout can go to the E4 bush or one of the bushes on the hill and light up any player who follows the road. The big red arrow is the enemy shells as they smack your team in the sides from across the map.  Anyway this is most likely how you got spotted. Just avoid the road.

The north side does have a few perks - a scout with great camo rating can sit in the bush in the middle of the field and light up enemies, but since south has cover and more foliage it's less effective than scouting from the south even though they are closer.  Ideally though, a north team should send 80% of its members through the woods and up the hill.  A medium tank or two should go through town and get into the depression at grid D-8, then peek over the edge to light stuff while jinking for arty safety. Then the hill team can roll down into the woods along the 0-line in a massive coordinated strike.  The problem with public games of course is that people will either never agree to go offense, or the fast tanks will trickle down off the hill and die while the slower heavies sit back and watch.  People also love to sit as base in the open and shoot at slivers of tanks behind buildings, not realizing this gets them lit and artied.

I don't think this map was designed with high tiers in mind at all.  In fact I debate whether this map was even 'designed' as that implies some thought went into it.  Did they look at the layout from the perspective of a newer player? Not likely.  It is just a mess that exemplifies why people don't like the vision system.  It is about half the size it should be for a tier 10 match.  You weren't wrong to head up the hill, but you used a bad route. And the hill is not overrated, in fact its importance can't be understated in public matches. Clanwars may be a different story.
Thank you, +1!!  Next time I go hill from the north of the map as a low tier tank, I will try going through the forest, as far to the north edge of the map as I can.

TiMMyS_LiPs #14 Posted Feb 08 2012 - 06:01

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 11394 battles
  • 657
  • Member since:
    04-23-2011
Honestly, the situation you described.  I'd have charged the middle and played another couple tanks for the 15 minutes it takes for your IS to come back.

People may groan, but what you described (being shot by invisible tanks, arty with no chance to retaliate) is the opposite of fun.

Mineaswell make a game where we get to be the bear that goes back and forth in the shooting gallery.

Redwing6 #15 Posted Feb 15 2012 - 14:01

    Major

  • Players
  • 22456 battles
  • 3,388
  • [BWO] BWO
  • Member since:
    03-26-2011
Komarin...if they changed spawns to the base you defend would make the game far more interesting

KilljoyCutter #16 Posted Feb 19 2012 - 17:28

    Major

  • Players
  • 8469 battles
  • 16,344
  • Member since:
    05-07-2011
What this map really needs is a road off the back of each side, so that anyone who gets it can do the smart thing and drive their tank off.

warrends #17 Posted Feb 19 2012 - 20:21

    Major

  • Council of Armored Forces
  • 14942 battles
  • 2,775
  • [SNRK] SNRK
  • Member since:
    05-19-2011
First, +1 for Mr. Parrot the map maker. Excellent map and explanation.

B, I was surprised to see Silty posing a question like this. I've seen your name over and over. Just goes to show that the intelligent experienced players understand that even they don't know the entire game and can still learn. So a +1 for you too.

And 3, I go hill every time, from either side. However in my several hundred times on this map (4500 battles, so that is probably right), I think I have only gone all the way to the top (windmill) one time. I let my much more suicidal teammates go to the very top, and if they survive then they can stream downhill on the other side creating a wall of death. I, on the other hand, spot. I have a bunch of favorite places in various bushes, and depending on what I am driving and where exactly I spawn (left or right of your own base can make a big difference in several seconds of getting to where you want to go in time), I choose which one to go to and then do my thing. Which is spotting and, when appropriate, killing. As for getting there, ALWAYS take routes that leave bushes and woods or hills between you and the bad guys. I think I've only been shot on my way up once or twice, and I quickly learned to NOT take that same route ever again.

madgod33 #18 Posted Feb 23 2012 - 19:06

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 13271 battles
  • 897
  • [TDB-1] TDB-1
  • Member since:
    10-23-2011

View PostStickeye, on Feb 07 2012 - 18:47, said:

This map really needs to have a hard cap of tier 6.

Or

The map needs a strip of land about 200m wide inserted that runs from south west to north east.

It needs players who understand it and don't close their eyes and whine "Campinovka, waahhhhh." Players who can learn how to exploit it in different ways with different tanks. I have no problem with running higher-tier tanks on it. In fact, it's my favorite map for the first time out with any new tank. Given the right circumstances (a few other players -- on my side, lol -- who know what they're doing, or else some other good luck) I can pwn it from either side at any tier. I'm at home there; I rejoice when I see it come up.

It's a map that needs teamwork and patience. Maybe that's the problem. ;)

sPzAbt505 #19 Posted Feb 23 2012 - 22:00

    Captain

  • Players
  • 14655 battles
  • 1,421
  • [-TOG-] -TOG-
  • Member since:
    06-10-2011

View PostSilty, on Feb 04 2012 - 14:43, said:

So I just came out of a bad tier 10 match in my IS.  I started out in the north, and decided to head up the hill as usual.  On the way there, I was shot by an invisible tank, then artied a couple times.  I ended up with 300 health by the time I got up there.
That was me.  Watch out for TDs w/ cammo nets hiding in the woods -  my M36 and I killed a KT and T32 -in the same game- that way.  There are routes up the hill on both sides that protect you from this.

Quote

Once there, I saw that my company was a Patton and an IS-7.  They had the usual strategy and even said it - "wait for the enemy to make their move first", or something like that.  I decided I would follow them when they eventually charged down.  But they didn't, they just camped the hill while we lost our other tanks.  And I'm usually an aggressive player, but I won't lead a charge in a 300 health IS in a tier 10 match.  But eventually I got finished off by arty anyways.  Maybe I should have returned to base and tried to snipe the tanks from there?
Errors:

1  Them doing nothing
2  You doing nothing with them.

You have control over #2.  Clearly, you did not need to charge down the hill, but doing nothing is always worse than doing the wrong thing.

Quote

So, what do you think?  Was I wrong in heading up the hill and exposing myself to enemy and arty fire?  Was I wrong in staying there with 300 health?  Is hill generally an overrated part of Malinovka?
You cannot really advance thru the town w/ bad guys on the hill - so, you need to make sure the hill is clear before you try to do so.  Charging down the hill w/o the Patton and IS7 just gets you killed, so not going was a good idea.

conman5525 #20 Posted Feb 23 2012 - 23:33

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 15487 battles
  • 463
  • Member since:
    10-28-2011
This is my favorite map for the Tetrarch and other sniper tanks. Usually get 2 - 4 kills on it. Lots of places to go, lots of tanks to kill. As an earlier poster said, the hill controls the east half of the map. Use it to your advantage. Doesnt matter if you have arty or not.

Try to get on the hill with all the fast tanks and some big guns if you can. Move as a group. If you can coordinate the push from hill downwards with the push across field, enfilade/defilade the defenders to your hearts content.