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Downgrading from a 3601 to a Tiger


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DimasRobin #21 Posted Sep 17 2010 - 16:32

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View PostSykotic, on Sep 17 2010 - 07:16, said:

This is FALSE. NOT TRUE. Amount of ammunition in your ammo rack does NOT affect your chance of an ammo rack explosion unless you have ZERO ammo in your ammo rack. The devs have stated this several times.

Since you can't play effectively if you don't have ammo and there is NO difference between having 2 rounds of ammo or 90 in your ammo rack, you should just load it up full.
I did not know that. In the real world thats how the odds would be, so I figured that the game followed the same rules.

T92_LT #22 Posted Sep 17 2010 - 22:29

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View PostDimasRobin, on Sep 17 2010 - 16:32, said:

I did not know that. In the real world thats how the odds would be, so I figured that the game followed the same rules.
I am not sure why the devs decided to implement it this way. It would have taken some logic statements to figure out percentage chance for damage to ammo rack based on ammo stored, but nothing much more than what they already have in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if they do change to that model in the future and we start seeing people figuring out how much ammo they use each battle and just taking that amount. Will be an interesting balancing act.

jvilnisaust #23 Posted Sep 25 2010 - 03:23

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I think my worst complaint about the Tiger is the repair costs are all out of whack compared to other Tier tanks. My IS is a profit making tank even if I lose with no real accomplishment in the battle.

With the tiger I would have to have a great battle just to break even.

Just an adjustment to the repair costs is needed.

Exige79 #24 Posted Oct 01 2010 - 10:36

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View PostSykotic, on Sep 17 2010 - 22:29, said:

I am not sure why the devs decided to implement it this way. It would have taken some logic statements to figure out percentage chance for damage to ammo rack based on ammo stored, but nothing much more than what they already have in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if they do change to that model in the future and we start seeing people figuring out how much ammo they use each battle and just taking that amount. Will be an interesting balancing act.

Don't forget the weight of all the ammo.
If you take a tank with full ammo rack then it can't do a top speed.
This could bring some more fun into the game.
If you drive a fully loaded tiger 1, they must increase the topspeed's/torque of it.

alm80 #25 Posted Oct 02 2010 - 14:09

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I have a fully upgraded VK3601 and I recently bought Tiger. So far it justified my worst expectations - it sucks. Actually, I should have known better. I fought Tigers a lot in my VK36 and that's what I think:

I engage Tiger without second thought - I know I can hurt it badly while circling around it. Every shot hits and does damage even with auto-aim. Turret can be penetrated from anywhere.
I engage Tiger II but with caution. Good hit from that can cripple my VK, I don't penetrate some shots and if possible I avoid Tiger II.

on the other hand

I try to avoid IS as many shots bounce and it can track me pretty well with its fast rotating turret.
I run away from IS-3 as from a plague. It's impossible for me to damage it reliably well and it still tracks me ok. One good shot from that tank and I'm a smoking pile of metal scrapes.

Bottom line - in a current state German heavies can not be compared against IS series on any level. Tiger is a slowly moving box of HP, Tiger II is more dangerous, but still manageable. IS is very formiddable tank on it's own. IS-3 and IS-4 are hellbeasts on the battlefield. Can hardly be damaged by mediums and very fast for heavy tanks.

vince_grant #26 Posted Oct 02 2010 - 16:18

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View Postalm80, on Oct 02 2010 - 14:09, said:

I have a fully upgraded VK3601 and I recently bought Tiger. So far it justified my worst expectations - it sucks. Actually, I should have known better. I fought Tigers a lot in my VK36 and that's what I think:

I engage Tiger without second thought - I know I can hurt it badly while circling around it. Every shot hits and does damage even with auto-aim. Turret can be penetrated from anywhere.
I engage Tiger II but with caution. Good hit from that can cripple my VK, I don't penetrate some shots and if possible I avoid Tiger II.

on the other hand

I try to avoid IS as many shots bounce and it can track me pretty well with its fast rotating turret.
I run away from IS-3 as from a plague. It's impossible for me to damage it reliably well and it still tracks me ok. One good shot from that tank and I'm a smoking pile of metal scrapes.

Bottom line - in a current state German heavies can not be compared against IS series on any level. Tiger is a slowly moving box of HP, Tiger II is more dangerous, but still manageable. IS is very formiddable tank on it's own. IS-3 and IS-4 are hellbeasts on the battlefield. Can hardly be damaged by mediums and very fast for heavy tanks.

You must be facing bad Tiger/KT players then, cause i've never really feared the VK36. They get 2 shotted with the long 105mm from KT, and they mostly bounce when shooting me. Also, the russian heavy line doesn't start to get an advantage over german untill the IS-4. The IS-3 is not better than KT, and IS is pretty much on par with Tiger. Imo that is..

T92_LT #27 Posted Oct 02 2010 - 21:11

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This a HUGE difference between a stock Tiger and a fully upgraded Tiger. It may be the most significant difference between a stock vehicle and an upgraded vehicle. All vehicles are different from stock to fully upgraded, but of all the ones I have driven the Tiger had the most noticeable difference.

That said, a fully upgraded Tiger is a really good tank. With the 8.8cm L/71 cannon and the final engine, I no longer have much to fear from Tier 6 and Tier 7 Mediums. The Panther and T-44 are still quite dangerous, but I can hold my own enough to have close to a 50/50 chance of killing them before they kill me. Either way, whoever wins that fight will be limping away very damaged.

Skwabie #28 Posted Oct 02 2010 - 22:00

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View PostSykotic, on Oct 02 2010 - 21:11, said:

This a HUGE difference between a stock Tiger and a fully upgraded Tiger. It may be the most significant difference between a stock vehicle and an upgraded vehicle. All vehicles are different from stock to fully upgraded, but of all the ones I have driven the Tiger had the most noticeable difference.

That said, a fully upgraded Tiger is a really good tank....

not really mate... Stock sucks, after upgrades sucks much less therefore you can feel a huge relief.... but! it still sucks. It simply is in the wrong tier.

del1000030716 #29 Posted Oct 03 2010 - 09:09

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As far as battlefield impact and fun yes, the VK3601 (prototype) ---> Tiger (real tank) made me unhappy and wonder if the real Tiger was soo poor in terms of overall performance (cannon against heavies and speed).

Sad you have to get the Tiger II to be more effective. Sad? Maybe. Very wise for sure, if you consider the credits you will have to buy.

Tiger is still poor with a 100% crew and all upgrades. Yes, you can kill and do a lot of things if you are in a lucky session but if you read some books and the real specs you'll realize that even the short L56 88mm was totally effective against everything in WW2. Here you need the L/71 to do *something* against heavies.

So far, something is VERY wrong in WoT.

But this is still a BETA and I hope they will re-balance many things.

shashaveli #30 Posted Oct 03 2010 - 09:49

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The tiger with long 88 is not an enemy to be underestimated. The long 88 can damage anything on the battlefield, its one of the most accurate guns in the game, Once the lag and warping are gone or at least reduced, you will learn to fear it.

alm80 #31 Posted Oct 03 2010 - 09:58

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First of all the German line in general is weaker than Russian line under the pretenses Russian tanks were designed/produced later and are superior to German counterparts. Ok with me, but then German tanks should have their tier modified accordingly. I think Tiger should be tier VI, not VII that puts it against IS which is superior. The claim that high HP somehow compensates for not bouncing hits is unjustified because even one hit often damages module and significantly reduces tank efficiency.

@Gatt - you are probably right, Tiger was gimped on purpose to push ppl to Tiger II which will require premium to be used effectively without credit loss. Tiger speed for example was reduced without any justification, which made it slow moving, easy to hit HP bank. I know, all arty simply loves Tiger as damage is guaranteed.

Skwabie #32 Posted Oct 04 2010 - 05:26

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View Postalm80, on Oct 03 2010 - 09:58, said:

I think Tiger should be tier VI, not VII that puts it against IS which is superior.


my point also. Tier 6 tank designed to fight tier 7 is bound to fail.

Quote

The claim that high HP somehow compensates for not bouncing hits is unjustified because even one hit often damages module and significantly reduces tank efficiency.

high HP is a joke... More HP = more hits = more module damage = you die a slow and painful death (it's nice isn't it)

Valeriadrina #33 Posted Oct 05 2010 - 19:27

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For the OP: Tiger has ton more HP than 3601 has, and you also get far superior gun. Obviously comes with downsides too but it`s hardly a downgrade. Obviously unpgraded Tiger is quite... ponderous.

HPs are advantageous because I`ve gotten oneshotted quite often in 3601 but that hardly happens in Tiger, lucky bounces non-withstanding. You are comparing what is probably the best tier 6 tank to ok heavy tank (yes, IS is better from what I`ve seen). Module damage is pretty frequent in this game, and some tanks have extra weakness on that front (like Jagdpanther gun, that thing breaks like on every second hit from front).




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