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How Would a BMP/Bradley Do in Game?


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Katamariguy1 #1 Posted Feb 16 2012 - 12:35

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And, if it would work, what tier what it be best at?

Mowie #2 Posted Feb 16 2012 - 12:38

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Too late and they are not tanks.

They would be something like tier 15.

theshiyal #3 Posted Feb 16 2012 - 12:43

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^^ True.  Because the Bradleys in Desert Storm killed more enemy tanks than M1s, because the carried not only TOW-II missiles but a 25mm cannon that could knock out most tanks in the game.

Quote

The tungsten APDS-T rounds proved highly effective in Desert Storm being capable of knocking out many Iraqi vehicles including several kills on T-55 tanks. There have even been reports of kills against Iraqi T-72 tanks at close range.


Sacher #4 Posted Feb 16 2012 - 13:02

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bmp got a 30mm autocannon which just kills anything
and a 100mm normal cannon with modern ammo which would cut threw any armor in ww2

Gigaton #5 Posted Feb 16 2012 - 13:11

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Actually, I doubt the usual 25mm/30mm sabots would be enough against Maus and the like. 40mm (as on Swedish CV9040) might do it perhaps.

I'm also of the opinion that MACLOS missiles (like early AT-3) wouldn't be totally OP for the game if all the disadvantages were modelled (need to maintain LoS, unstable flight, loss of accuracy from supressing fire). Though if they'd hit they would be at least equivalent to E-100's HEAT rounds.

USMarine #6 Posted Feb 16 2012 - 13:43

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What you guys are forgetting is this: It's American which means it's hull will be utter crap.

thejoker91 #7 Posted Feb 16 2012 - 16:24

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View PostUSMarine, on Feb 16 2012 - 13:43, said:

What you guys are forgetting is this: It's American which means it's hull will be utter crap.

Both vehicles have utter crap hulls. They are IFVs after all.

As for how would they do in the game. BAD.

The missile wont be implemented, and the 25mm gun even if it can penetrate  will do something like 35 damage per shot if you are lucky. Couple this with a big profile (Bradley is as big as Tiger I) and you have a nice fail.

Teddy_Bear #8 Posted Feb 21 2012 - 09:58

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They are not tanks, but if placed into the game they should do quite well. They would both likely have very thin armor, but their weapons would be quite effective, particularly the ATGMs.

IronsightSniper #9 Posted Feb 21 2012 - 16:03

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View PostGigaton, on Feb 16 2012 - 13:11, said:

Actually, I doubt the usual 25mm/30mm sabots would be enough against Maus and the like. 40mm (as on Swedish CV9040) might do it perhaps.

I'm also of the opinion that MACLOS missiles (like early AT-3) wouldn't be totally OP for the game if all the disadvantages were modelled (need to maintain LoS, unstable flight, loss of accuracy from supressing fire). Though if they'd hit they would be at least equivalent to E-100's HEAT rounds.

Average penetration for the 25 mm APFSDS is about 60 mm at 2km, for the 30 mm APDS of the BMP is 62 mm at 1 km, and the 40 mm APFSDS at 131 mm at 1 km. The most prominent feature would be that all of these rounds would be less prone to ricochet, as they are moving at higher velocities (about 200 mps faster than your generic AP round) and are of superior penetrator material (WHA/DU v.s. Steel). At nominal combat ranges (100-500 m), all of these rounds are likely to be able to penetrate but the best protected of tanks.

The 73 mm gun of the BMP-1 however, can fire HEAT rounds that can penetrate every tank in game. The 100 mm gun is just overkill.

View Postthejoker91, on Feb 16 2012 - 16:24, said:

Both vehicles have utter crap hulls. They are IFVs after all.

As for how would they do in the game. BAD.

The missile wont be implemented, and the 25mm gun even if it can penetrate  will do something like 35 damage per shot if you are lucky. Couple this with a big profile (Bradley is as big as Tiger I) and you have a nice fail.

Unlikely. The rounds in question are not your generic steel rounds. Both WHA and DU rounds are noted for their "special" post penetration properties, namely, starting fires. In fact, I don't doubt that a 25 mm M919 penetrating the turret of say, the Sherman, would cause a fire that would destroy the entire tank, though, that's a stretch. Either way, the power of such small rounds is not to be underestimated, and certainly, not undervalued.


View PostTeddy_Bear, on Feb 21 2012 - 09:58, said:

They are not tanks, but if placed into the game they should do quite well. They would both likely have very thin armor, but their weapons would be quite effective, particularly the ATGMs.

Whether they are tanks or not isn't the big question, as vehicles that wouldn't qualify as tanks today are included in the game anyways. In any case, though the thickness of a vehicle's armor is relevant, it is not the only factor in gauging it's effectiveness. The BMP-3, for example, uses not only steel for it's armor, but probably titanium and or aluminum in a spaced array configuration. Thus too does the Bradley use a similar configuration. All in all, though, thin relative to the vehicles in game, they are not underprotected. In fact, from current estimations, the glacis of the M2 bradley should be able to protect it from even a 88 mm AP round (APCBC) from 100 m away.

Overall, despite the ludicrousness of including such modern and advanced vehicles into a game featuring WW2 armored vehicles, entertaining this question leads me to conclude that the Bradley and the BMP, in all of it's variants, would preform very well. They'd qualify for a Medium tank, and as for Tier, obviously Tier 10+.

iPancakes #10 Posted Feb 21 2012 - 16:50

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this is how those bradleys will do with the 25mm Cannon (in 3:40-4:10)



add the LOLs from the Bradley commander (at 0:35-1:00)


if they will add this little guy up, they wont include the TOW

it would be a Tier VI tank I think

thejoker91 #11 Posted Feb 22 2012 - 00:50

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View PostIronsightSniper, on Feb 21 2012 - 16:03, said:




Unlikely. The rounds in question are not your generic steel rounds. Both WHA and DU rounds are noted for their "special" post penetration properties, namely, starting fires. In fact, I don't doubt that a 25 mm M919 penetrating the turret of say, the Sherman, would cause a fire that would destroy the entire tank, though, that's a stretch. Either way, the power of such small rounds is not to be underestimated, and certainly, not undervalued.





I know all about the special properties of DU. But this isnt a tank simulator after all. 25mm gun in this game do around 12 dmg with a french one doing 27. I gave them 35, wich is already high given wargaimings way of assigning dmg. Even if they make it 50, it will be still be bad, since even with a high RoF, it doesnt do enough damage to be a threat. Sure, it may have a lot of DPM, so what? most tracks have more HP than that.

They arent bad vehicles at all, but they have a function that isnt in this game. Only the BMP could be competitive given its gun choice.

IronsightSniper #12 Posted Feb 22 2012 - 01:06

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View Postthejoker91, on Feb 22 2012 - 00:50, said:

I know all about the special properties of DU. But this isnt a tank simulator after all. 25mm gun in this game do around 12 dmg with a french one doing 27. I gave them 35, wich is already high given wargaimings way of assigning dmg. Even if they make it 50, it will be still be bad, since even with a high RoF, it doesnt do enough damage to be a threat. Sure, it may have a lot of DPM, so what? most tracks have more HP than that.

They arent bad vehicles at all, but they have a function that isnt in this game. Only the BMP could be competitive given its gun choice.

Your name fits you  :Smile-hiding:

No, Wargaming is more realistic than that. The 25 mm Bushmaster doesn't even fire fast enough to be considered an autocannon, so downgrading it's damage values on that basis is a no go. Next, the rounds I'm talking about here, the M919, are of course going to be the premium rounds, and thus the subsequent damage boost.

thejoker91 #13 Posted Feb 23 2012 - 19:14

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View PostIronsightSniper, on Feb 22 2012 - 01:06, said:

Your name fits you  :Smile-hiding:

No, Wargaming is more realistic than that. The 25 mm Bushmaster doesn't even fire fast enough to be considered an autocannon, so downgrading it's damage values on that basis is a no go. Next, the rounds I'm talking about here, the M919, are of course going to be the premium rounds, and thus the subsequent damage boost.

Yes, the 25mm french one isnt an autocannon and deals 27 dmg per shot. Like I said, 50 is already pushing it for a 25mm gun, and even then, whats the point of having a vehicle with such a high profile and such a terrible gun? M2 bradley would suck very hard in this game unless they give it ATGMs.

So then tell me, what do you expect in damage for this gun?

IronsightSniper #14 Posted Feb 24 2012 - 00:43

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View Postthejoker91, on Feb 23 2012 - 19:14, said:

Yes, the 25mm french one isnt an autocannon and deals 27 dmg per shot. Like I said, 50 is already pushing it for a 25mm gun, and even then, whats the point of having a vehicle with such a high profile and such a terrible gun? M2 bradley would suck very hard in this game unless they give it ATGMs.

So then tell me, what do you expect in damage for this gun?

"Terrible gun" is an overstatement. The 25 mm Bushmaster is more accurate than the autocannons of it class, due to it's projectile's high muzzle velocity. Next, the rounds it fires aren't anything like the rounds on the autocannons in the game as of now. Because of the projectile's high velocity and high density, it essentially ignores any chance of ricochet. So combine that with the fact that the M919 can penetrate 70 mm of steel at 2,000 m (closer to 100 mm at nominal WoT ranges), you can basically penetrate 85% of the tanks game, with no chance of ricochet, and at a fairly high rate of fire. Good stuff there.

Damage would at least be around 40-80.

stug41 #15 Posted Feb 24 2012 - 16:42

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The BMP and Bradley would do very well, as long as they are not hit. Even a 50mm cannon would pose a great threat to them. They would tear up everything below t8 frontally very easily though.

lpmaster #16 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 00:19

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Armor, too good.
Guns, too good.
Systems, too good

lpmaster #17 Posted Apr 22 2012 - 00:24

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View Posttimmy41, on Feb 24 2012 - 16:42, said:

The BMP and Bradley would do very well, as long as they are not hit. Even a 50mm cannon would pose a great threat to them. They would tear up everything below t8 frontally very easily though.

The DU rounds of the M1A1 would shred everything in one.
The DU armor is as strong as PURE steel, which means
very strong. It goes at 60 KM/H. It weighs 70 Tons. It has
gyroscopic systems. It has fast reload. It has night, infrared
vision. It has 2 KM range. It has a crew of 4.

Kampfwagenkanone #18 Posted Apr 23 2012 - 10:19

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View PostMowie, on Feb 16 2012 - 12:38, said:

Too late and they are not tanks.

They would be something like tier 15.

A lot of the vehicles already in game aren't tanks.

Crackpunch #19 Posted Apr 23 2012 - 10:22

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View Postlpmaster, on Apr 22 2012 - 00:24, said:

The DU armor is as strong as PURE steel,

Steel is iron and carbon mixed together. There is no such thing as pure steel, unless you are referring to just carbon and iron (which is inferior to steel with other hardening metals).

Rifleman223 #20 Posted Apr 23 2012 - 11:18

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Not to mention that the tanks fire AP which would not be able to pen the bradley's rolled steel/composite armor which would stop an AP round a quarter through before it could pen. Bradleys also fire the infamous APDS-T tanks, which could pen these tanks alot easier thanks to their weaker armor and the higher velocity ranges of the round, not to mention that the shell is like a dart, made for penetrating armor. WW2 tanks would have the equivelent armor of a light armored vehicle because its welded steel, not rolled steel/composite mixture like many tanks/ifv's feature.