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Is crappy win rate really bad luck? What else can I do to help win?


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Rainybeet #1 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 21:29

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I have been playing my Ferdie for a week or two now, and have racked up 140 games.  As of right now I have a 44% win rate and a 54% loss rate.  With most tanks that I do this poorly with, I feel like I just suck at that tank (M5 Stewart, T-28, M6, Wolverine, and pretty much any other American tank), but with the Ferdie, like with most German and Russian TDs, I feel like I play above average.  I also do not feel like a delusional Noob, having played over 5600 games in 98 different tanks.  I feel as though when I am good in a tank, I know it, and when I suck I know it even more quickly.  As an added frustration, I have tracked the progress of being pre-fully upgraded and being fully upgraded, and the win/loss rate has stayed exactly the same, though I have more kills and hits and do more damage since getting the 128.

Normally I would say that the Win/Loss stats do not matter, but it becomes harder and harder to say that as I play more and more games with the TD.  What could I be doing wrong to cause my team to lose?  What am I not doing to help my team win?  I sit back and snipe, until I know that I have an opening where I cannot be flanked, then I move up to engage larger targets.  I do not go for easy kills unless they have a big gun, then I take out the heavy hitter when possible.  I always try to fill holes and cover weak points left by others (a skill necessary in public battles).

So what can I do?

Well, here are my stats for the Ferdie:

Battles: 140
Won: 44%
Lost: 54%
Survived: 29%
Frags: 236 (1.7 per battle)
Kill/Death ratio: 2.4 kills per death
Tier 8+ Frags: 102
Avg damage: 1821
Damage ratio: 1.9 damage dealt for ever 1 inflicted on me
Capture Points: 227
Defence Points: 501

Efficiency rating: 1926 (highest of any tanks that I have played a decent number of battles with other than PZII and Tiger II)

So, given the stats, I feel like I should have a win rate of at least 55-60 (I almost exclusively play public battles), but instead I have a win rate of 44, ranking up there with the Wolverine, Sherman, and T1 as one of my worst tanks that I have played over 75 battles with, and the 3rd worst of the 17 TDs that I have played.

FYI, my tank is fully upgraded and has a 100% camo + 50% repair crew with Binocs, Vents, and a Rammer.

Darrigaaz #2 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 21:35

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Because this game is a team game, and not a solo player game, being "good in a tank" is only part of the win rate formula.  Knowing how and when to apply damage is just as important as actually applying the damage.

Here's a small list of things you can improve on to bring up your win rate, without increasing your skill in your tank.

1. Knowing how to influence the battle
2. Reading the actions of your teammates and deciding on an action using the info you have gained
3. Reading the composition of the enemy team and understanding what most players do with most tank types
4. Communicating better with teammates
5. Learn the maps, including chokepoints, arty lines of fire, hill inclinations and what tanks can benefit/suffer from it
6. Watch your own replays to figure out what you might have missed during the heat of the battle, and be conscious of it next time

Using just a few of these will greatly improve your ability to control the outcome of every battle you are in.

paradat #3 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 21:38

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Well this may be OK if you are not fully upgraded. OK just looked at your overall stats and you are definetly doing fine. Better than most in fact.

I find that TD's are highly vulnerable to bad teams. Having said that 140 battles not that much based on your other stats I suspect the Win% will rise quite a bit. You are also doing fine with the other German TD's before the Ferdi.

Just give it time.

Sparater #4 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 21:39

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Well for mostly other tanks I would caution you on where to go and when you rush in, but you're talking about a ferdi. Normally when I see a ferdi it is no surprise when they are defending, or about to ambush.

There really is no way for you to change your WIN/LOSE ratio... you are just 1/15 of your team. Im sorry but most of my losses are due to a fail team :o

Saga #5 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 21:39

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Be mobile and watch the mini-map.  Go where you are needed to support your team.  Don't just decide "I'm going forward" and be so inflexible that you can't turn around or go where you are needed.  

I can't count the number of times that matches have been lost because people can't turn around and go back to base. . .that the enemy has started capping with three people, and they just keep on driving toward the enemy cap. . .as if they are going to out cap them.  

I mean really.  Please.  Be aware of the entire battle, not just the area inside your reticule.

ArchMadman #6 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 21:50

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i wish i could win more in my higer tier tanks, so far i haven't won yet today in my tier 8 and 9 tanks, im on a 16 game losing streak and getting really angry to the point where i call out bad players.

Ironmonger69 #7 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 21:53

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View Postparadat, on Mar 02 2012 - 21:38, said:

I find that TD's are highly vulnerable to bad teams.

^^This is especially true in the Ferdi, especially if not fully upgraded, because the below is true too

View PostSaga, on Mar 02 2012 - 21:39, said:


Be mobile...  Go where you are needed to support your team.
And that's what I think is hard about the Ferdi; compared to the prior TDs she's immobile.  Going where you are needed is problematic if you weren't there in the first place.  It's likely to be too late by the time you do, and you'll be hung out all alone.  Once you're flanked, you're done for.  The key I think is to accurately assess where you will most likely be be needed, and where you can achive the most versatile coverage with the least repositioning.

Don't feel too bad.  I had an average of 55.6% in TDs alone before the Ferdi, but could only finish with a 49% in this beast.  She can dominate the battlefield for sure, but she can't carry a team that breaks down very well, or respond to trouble to prevent the breakdown like a more mobile TD can.

But it is a load of fun with that 128 mounted.  Stick with it.

Chief777 #8 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 22:04

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View PostArchMadman, on Mar 02 2012 - 21:50, said:

i wish i could win more in my higer tier tanks, so far i haven't won yet today in my tier 8 and 9 tanks, im on a 16 game losing streak and getting really angry to the point where i call out bad players.
It doesn't take a losing streak for me to point out bad players.  :Smile-izmena:

THORNS #9 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 22:05

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We are talking about just 13 defeats more than victories, that can be reversed in one good night. If you had 200 victories and 500 defeats then I would say stop scouting with your Ferdi  :Smile_harp:

KilgorSoS #10 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 22:17

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Im starting to think it's all hogwash, BS, and Bad Luck, My last 400 games 58% win ratio, but my last 30 games 46%, yet I inflicted as much damage, and kills, as in the win streak times. There is a "Streak" of luck when playing pubs, and solo. Last night, went solo for 25 or so games, then platooned. My first 5 games were all victories, and not just wins but TOTAL SLAUGHTERS, then 3 where I was on the receiving end, etc, then it just stayed bad for a long time.

We've all seen the sceen shots of the Win-Mod, where one team has all green, and the other, has 1 green and all red, so that guy is screwed, period, bad luck. In this games it comes in streaks, and often aided by a myriad of reasons. Last night, Playin T30, next three top tanks on my team, all platooned clan members, all AFK from start to finish, I hammered the bad guys, 5 kills, all 100% kills, and am marching onto the enemy base while the enemy flank rolls on ours, killing the afk's and winning, That is bad luck...

These come in streaks, and I know we all remember our bad streaks far more then the good ones, so in the end it balances out.

Keep pluggin along in that Ferdi, it is capable of high win ratio, you are the key...

Good Luck

Kruppcake #11 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 22:29

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I'll quickly second the comments about playing a TD and how it is very, very subject to the quality and support/lack of support from your team.

Winning is not just a matter of luck. There are several critical factors involved, many of which you can do little or nothing to change.  I think, in order of their power to affect the outcome, the main factors are:

1.) The aggregate quality of both teams and how they relate to each other. No matter how good you are, you are 1/30th of the total equation. A lot depends on how the rest of your team, and the enemy team, stacks up against each other.

2.) Matchmaker Mood.  The MM is not an automatic death sentence or free victory, but there's no getting around the fact that you can only play the hand you're dealt, and the MM can deal some really . . . um . . . "interesting" . . . hands.

3.) Your own individual skill.  Though people with really high win rates love to brag that it's them who leads teams to victory and that anyone can make the difference between loss and win, individual skill can only go so far against the factors above.  An individual CAN make the difference, though, for good or ill. How well do you know your tank? How well do you know your role? Are you familiar with the maps? Do you understand basic tactics? What's your twitch factor (this makes a lot of difference, and it's something that is mostly hardwired.)  Etc.

4.) Your tank.  Stock? Maxed? Extra mods? Consumables? Experience with the tank?  

5.) A host of other variables -- your health, mood, internet connection, computer, distractions, cat jumping on keyboard, etc.

6.) Luck

In my own personal experience, I played through more than half my games with only the goal of grinding out every tech tree. As a result I rushed, didn't learn my tanks, didn't focus fully on winning every battle, but just getting through them. Finally, I saw that I had sunk my stats, and sunk them so deeply that they'll pretty much always be low.  More importantly, I woke up to the fact that I was part of a team, and that how I played affected other people. From that point I decided to try to focus on improving.  The problem was, as you have experienced, how exactly do I do that?

One of the best pieces of advice I was given was not to concentrate on your win rate, but focus on your hit ratio.  The more you hit the enemy, the more damage you do. The more damage you do, the more you contribute to victory. The more damage you do, the more experience you get.  I had bad shooting habits, wasting a lot of shots on long chances and blind or semi-aimed shots intended to distract or intimidate enemies on the advance. While this approach to shooting sometimes worked, it wasted a lot of shots. Since then I have focused on improving hit ratio and developing a more disciplined approach to firing, tailored more to my vehicle and its weapon.  I've brought my hit ratio up 10% since then, and it continues to rise.  I have seen that simple fact make quite a big difference.  My global win rate is rising, but due to the huge hole I  blasted into my stats early on, it will literally take more than a year of above-average playing to bring the ratio up to average.  More useful for my own purposes in watching my stats over more recent play.  Although my official win ratio is %45, which is below average, my actual current win rate is around %51, which is above average.  I attribute the improvement mostly to working on improving the hit rate, and trying to focus more on contributing to the team instead of just grinding through.  I hope to continue to improve with time.

When all else fails, you can't do much wrong by finding the enemy and hitting them. Improving your hit ratio is a relatively straightforward task that has immediate benefits to your play, your team and your exp/cash.

There are other things you can work on, as suggested above.

YuriPup #12 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 22:29

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Statistically speaking there it's no denying that skill plays a part in win rate so there has to be something with your pay style with the Ferdi.  With the top engine and tracks the tank it's more than mobile enough and has strong armor if you are hull down.

n00biachi #13 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 22:31

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My advice,join a clan and platoon up with people....or post in the permanent platoon topic if you dont want to join a clan and feel any obligations.
Platooning makes this game much more enjoyable imo.


.....I see youre in a clan already,you guys dont platoon or something? you really need someone to watch your ass as soon as it looks like you might be in trouble when playing a td.

Max_Brokerman #14 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 22:56

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View PostYuriPup, on Mar 02 2012 - 22:29, said:

Statistically speaking there it's no denying that skill plays a part in win rate so there has to be something with your pay style with the Ferdi.  With the top engine and tracks the tank it's more than mobile enough and has strong armor if you are hull down.

I agree to a point.  But when your swarmed by tanks as I have been in my Jagd/OBJ/and Now T95 after the entire team is dead in the first 5 minutes taking a Useless Town/Hill Etc then no amount of skill or mods or even Gold ammo is gonna save us TD Drivers :(

My Stats are terrible yet my Damage is Excellent so I believe I am at least attempting to do my part for the Team.

n00biachi #15 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 23:43

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View PostMax_Brokerman, on Mar 02 2012 - 22:56, said:

I agree to a point.  But when your swarmed by tanks as I have been in my Jagd/OBJ/and Now T95 after the entire team is dead in the first 5 minutes taking a Useless Town/Hill Etc then no amount of skill or mods or even Gold ammo is gonna save us TD Drivers :(

My Stats are terrible yet my Damage is Excellent so I believe I am at least attempting to do my part for the Team.

I just checked and its not,it is actually fairly bad.

But yes you really have to be platooned playing the 95 and JT.....704 can handle itself fairly well.

carlzyy #16 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 23:48

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It's not purely about luck. Something to do with skill and situational awareness.

For example: if one player can do the following things:

* flank enemies when they are busy dealing other teammates
* use cover to avoid arty fire
* always face enemy with the strongest armor (more advanced skills: IS-4 20 degree pose, E-75's "dancing")
* remind the team when things go wrong ("need more people in town!")
……

his win ratio will be more likely to be higher than those who don't

mareign #17 Posted Mar 02 2012 - 23:58

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Platooning helps.  How many of those matches were without the gun, because a ferdi without the 128 blows.  There's also the fact you may not be playing the tank correctly since it is quite different that the TD's that come before it.  Also there is a reason people say stats don't really tell the whole story because statistically speaking, someone has to get more bad teams than good.

Ducman69 #18 Posted Mar 03 2012 - 00:04

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Its surprising how much your own actions can influence those around you.

A very aggressive player rushing into an exposed area may lure others to join him since he's taking fire, that otherwise might have held their superior position for example.  

Aside from platooning (I don't have the patience for that personally) and playing the majority of your games in tanks you do well with, there's really no trick to improving your win rate than just improving your team play.   I'd ignore the efficiency rating though, the goal of the game is to win, and quite often I have pushed hard with my IS-3 to attract enemy fire towards me rather than softer support tanks behind me, even though it meant I wouldn't survive as long or deal as much damage.    Might make for less XP, but if it helps the win, I'm happy!

tanky_the_tank #19 Posted Mar 03 2012 - 00:57

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If you are floating around average player performance, you are more vulnerable to streaks of below or above average teams, because your own contribution is just enough to give the rest of the team 50/50 chance of winning. You might not have the performance to swing the game when your whole team is even slightly worse than the other side. On top of that, you can get streaks of maps you're good or bad on, streaks of enemy tanks your team isn't good against, even streaks where you pick wrong way to go at beginning and pay for it. A couple hundred games isn't enough to protect from all that. For instance, I had 55-56% win in IS past 100 games, but fell to 52% by the time I reached 200. I probably had unusually good luck in the beginning.